User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36

Thread: Is Pete Buttigieg Really a Christian?

  1. #16
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    810
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 451 Times in 306 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    151333
    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    She's a perfect example of the type of irrational illogical emotional voter that the Democrats depend on.
    And here is how they create the irrational emotional voters. This program in our educational system has been going on since at least the 1940s,


  2. #17
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    111
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    I would say where she ends up is a rational destination from the basic assumptions of her world view.
    Good point, keyword "assumptions".

    Nevertheless, those who are pro-homosexual believe that they have a purely rational basis for their belief, asking: "But has not homosexuality been proven to be genetic?"

    Of course, the answer is No. Also, note that even if homosexuality could be proven to be genetic, so could alcoholism, criminal violence, and schizophrenia. Human genes in their current, fallen, corrupted state have nothing to do with proving what is moral, or what is good mental health.

    Also, Christian Gay Conversion Therapy can help some gay Christians to become straight, or at least to no longer practice homosexuality. For Jesus Christ has the power to deliver Christians from slavery to any sin (John 8:34-36). And He can do this even apart from any human therapy.

    Also, it is curious that homosexuals sometimes claim that what they do sexually is okay because it is genetic, while transgender people (who are also homosexual) claim that genetics is completely irrelevant, and even totally-counter, to their real identity. So which claim is right? Of course, the answer is that neither claim has any rational basis.

    But while homosexual acts are sinful (Romans 1:26-27), we too easily forget that homosexual acts (Genesis 19:4-5) were not the only sin of Sodom. For: "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy" (Ezekiel 16:49). How many of us Christians who love to rail against homosexuality are nonetheless "just like Sodom" with regard to our pride, our fullness of bread, our abundance of idleness, and our refusal to strengthen the hand of the poor and needy? How many of us love to place ourselves above homosexuals, forgetting that even if we were completely free from all sin ourselves, we would still be judged by God for our self-righteousness (Luke 18:9-14)?

    But, at the same time, the truth must never be discounted that homosexual acts, if they are not repented of, will, like any other unrepentant sin, keep people from ultimate salvation (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

    The list of sins which will ultimately keep even Christians out of the Kingdom of God (if they do not repent from them) is quite long (Galatians 5:19-21), and some of these sins are common even in the Church today. So why is there such a focus by some Christians on homosexuality alone? Why does not the Church also focus on, for example, its own very-widespread practice of divorce and second-marriage adultery (Mark 10:11-12)?

  3. #18
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    111
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Nazism was relentlessly logical not matter how irrational it looks to those of us who reject it's underlying basic assumptions. Socialist dogma is also relentlessly logical, if a person accepts Karl Marx's ridiculous assertions which he could never support against rational criticisms.
    That's right.

    And how wrong it was that both Nazism and Marxism ruthlessly persecuted those who disagreed with them.

    Which raises the question: Could Christians be persecuted in our future by pro-homosexuals simply for asserting from the Bible that homosexual acts are sinful?

    Then answer is Yes, just as Christians are already being persecuted by major social media corporations by having their pages and posts deleted for "homophobia". And this persecution could expand until even the government itself becomes involved in it. For any assertion that homosexual acts are sinful could become an illegal act of "hate speech", punishable by fines and imprisonment.

    A move toward this point could have even started. For example, not long ago, the New York Times (98% of its readers say that they never pray) held a forum for evangelicals, the point of which was to basically accuse evangelicals of causing the Orlando, Pulse-nightclub shooting against homosexuals, because of the evangelical teaching against homosexuality, which it is said puts homosexuals "in danger". Of course, that Orlando shooting was done by a Muslim, not a Christian. But in the twisted, Satanic world of "political correctness", no evil can ever be ascribed to Islam (even though Islam, even in its moderate forms, opposes homosexuality no less than evangelical Christianity), whereas any evil whatsoever can be ascribed to evangelical Christianity.

    Also, "political correctness" loves to paint any evangelical teaching against homosexuality as "homophobic", or "hateful", as if evangelical Christians are actually fearful (phobic) of homosexuals, or actually hate them, when in fact evangelical Christianity simply states from the Bible itself that homosexuality is sinful (Romans 1:26-27). It would be like pedophiles saying that Christians (or even New York Times readers) are "pedophobic", or "hateful", for being against pedophilia, which pedophiles prefer to call "man-boy love". Or, it would be like people who are into bestiality saying that Christians are "beastiphobic", or "hateful", for being against bestiality, which people who are into bestiality prefer to call "inter-species love".

    So, along with the acceptance of homosexuality, do not be surprised if the non-Christian world, in the name of "love", eventually begins to also accept pedophilia and bestiality, so long as (in the non-Christian world's words) "the child or the animal involved in each case is okay with the activity, showing no signs of distress, but rather consent, and even pleasure".

    And then pedophiles and people who are into bestiality will walk around with "Love wins" signs at anti-Christian rallies.

  4. #19
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    810
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 451 Times in 306 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    151333
    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    Good point, keyword "assumptions".

    Nevertheless, those who are pro-homosexual believe that they have a purely rational basis for their belief, asking: "But has not homosexuality been proven to be genetic?"

    Of course, the answer is No. Also, note that even if homosexuality could be proven to be genetic, so could alcoholism, criminal violence, and schizophrenia. Human genes in their current, fallen, corrupted state have nothing to do with proving what is moral, or what is good mental health.

    Also, Christian Gay Conversion Therapy can help some gay Christians to become straight, or at least to no longer practice homosexuality. For Jesus Christ has the power to deliver Christians from slavery to any sin (John 8:34-36). And He can do this even apart from any human therapy.

    Also, it is curious that homosexuals sometimes claim that what they do sexually is okay because it is genetic, while transgender people (who are also homosexual) claim that genetics is completely irrelevant, and even totally-counter, to their real identity. So which claim is right? Of course, the answer is that neither claim has any rational basis.

    But while homosexual acts are sinful (Romans 1:26-27), we too easily forget that homosexual acts (Genesis 19:4-5) were not the only sin of Sodom. For: "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy" (Ezekiel 16:49). How many of us Christians who love to rail against homosexuality are nonetheless "just like Sodom" with regard to our pride, our fullness of bread, our abundance of idleness, and our refusal to strengthen the hand of the poor and needy? How many of us love to place ourselves above homosexuals, forgetting that even if we were completely free from all sin ourselves, we would still be judged by God for our self-righteousness (Luke 18:9-14)?

    But, at the same time, the truth must never be discounted that homosexual acts, if they are not repented of, will, like any other unrepentant sin, keep people from ultimate salvation (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

    The list of sins which will ultimately keep even Christians out of the Kingdom of God (if they do not repent from them) is quite long (Galatians 5:19-21), and some of these sins are common even in the Church today. So why is there such a focus by some Christians on homosexuality alone? Why does not the Church also focus on, for example, its own very-widespread practice of divorce and second-marriage adultery (Mark 10:11-12)?
    I agree with you. Sin is sin. There are a lot of sins that are an abomination to God. Serving other gods, or idols, of which anything we place before God in our lives is an idol. Teaching others to join us in our sins is also an abomination to God. Going to anyone other than God to know our future is an abomination before God. Being dishonest in business. The list is long.

    Proverbs 12:22 Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord;
    Deuteronomy 13:12 ¶If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
    13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
    14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;
    Deuteronomy 18:9 ¶When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
    10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
    11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
    12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
    Deuteronomy 25:13 ¶Thou shalt not have in thy bag divers weights, a great and a small.
    14 Thou shalt not have in thine house divers measures, a great and a small.
    15 But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
    16 For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God.
    Isaiah 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
    2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.
    3¶Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
    4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
    5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord?
    6Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
    7Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
    8 ¶Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy rereward.
    I would add one to the list. Any ideology that teaches the individual that it is not their personal duty to take care of those less fortunate than themselves but is instead the government's job to do so. That goes along with Deuteronomy 13:12-14 for it is teaching people that the responsibility God laid upon us all is irrelevant and not to be followed.

  5. #20
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    810
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 451 Times in 306 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    151333
    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    That's right.

    And how wrong it was that both Nazism and Marxism ruthlessly persecuted those who disagreed with them.

    Which raises the question: Could Christians be persecuted in our future by pro-homosexuals simply for asserting from the Bible that homosexual acts are sinful?

    Then answer is Yes, just as Christians are already being persecuted by major social media corporations by having their pages and posts deleted for "homophobia". And this persecution could expand until even the government itself becomes involved in it. For any assertion that homosexual acts are sinful could become an illegal act of "hate speech", punishable by fines and imprisonment.

    A move toward this point could have even started. For example, not long ago, the New York Times (98% of its readers say that they never pray) held a forum for evangelicals, the point of which was to basically accuse evangelicals of causing the Orlando, Pulse-nightclub shooting against homosexuals, because of the evangelical teaching against homosexuality, which it is said puts homosexuals "in danger". Of course, that Orlando shooting was done by a Muslim, not a Christian. But in the twisted, Satanic world of "political correctness", no evil can ever be ascribed to Islam (even though Islam, even in its moderate forms, opposes homosexuality no less than evangelical Christianity), whereas any evil whatsoever can be ascribed to evangelical Christianity.

    Also, "political correctness" loves to paint any evangelical teaching against homosexuality as "homophobic", or "hateful", as if evangelical Christians are actually fearful (phobic) of homosexuals, or actually hate them, when in fact evangelical Christianity simply states from the Bible itself that homosexuality is sinful (Romans 1:26-27). It would be like pedophiles saying that Christians (or even New York Times readers) are "pedophobic", or "hateful", for being against pedophilia, which pedophiles prefer to call "man-boy love". Or, it would be like people who are into bestiality saying that Christians are "beastiphobic", or "hateful", for being against bestiality, which people who are into bestiality prefer to call "inter-species love".

    So, along with the acceptance of homosexuality, do not be surprised if the non-Christian world, in the name of "love", eventually begins to also accept pedophilia and bestiality, so long as (in the non-Christian world's words) "the child or the animal involved in each case is okay with the activity, showing no signs of distress, but rather consent, and even pleasure".

    And then pedophiles and people who are into bestiality will walk around with "Love wins" signs at anti-Christian rallies.
    All of the things you spoke to are already happening. They are not future events but current events. Pedophelia and beastiality are already being put forward as "normal". It isn't widespread as yet, at least not the beastialty part, but it's out there and growing pretty rapidly.

  6. #21
    Over 1000 post club The Horn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    New Rochelle,NY.
    Posts
    1,378
    Thanks
    268
    Thanked 379 Times in 269 Posts

    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    203632
    If Trump is a Christian, I am Godzilla .

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to The Horn For Your Post:

    Rusha (April 28th, 2019)

  8. #22
    TOL Legend
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    24,891
    Thanks
    3,814
    Thanked 9,330 Times in 6,925 Posts

    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    2147777
    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    If Trump is a Christian, I am Godzilla .
    OK

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (April 28th, 2019),TrumpTrainCA (April 28th, 2019)

  10. #23
    Over 500 post club TrumpTrainCA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    609
    Thanks
    116
    Thanked 151 Times in 115 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    4848
    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    If Trump is a Christian, I am Godzilla .
    Hello Mr. Godzilla.

    Have you heard that the Democrats are socialists who support gay marriage, infanticide, and all manner of abominations unto the Lord? If you haven't, then now you have.

    "All aboard the Trump Train. Next stop, Victory Station, 2020!"

  11. #24
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    18,637
    Thanks
    125
    Thanked 931 Times in 857 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    125424
    If he is a homosexual he is not a Christian according to 1 Corinthians 6. This does not matter whether he has married another man. It does matter if he has acted upon homosexual urgings in homosexual sex, for which the Bible lays out the death penalty. The word consensual is usually used by people to promote heterosexual relations that cannot be prosecuted by law. But there is such a thing as being a willing participant to sin. Homosexual sex carries the death penalty as a crime. A relationship where there is no sex can possibly be repented of. Certainly we want to say a person can repent of all their sin.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

  12. #25
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    111
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    It does matter if he has acted upon homosexual urgings in homosexual sex, for which the Bible lays out the death penalty.
    Note that the death penalty for homosexual sex was an Old Covenant Mosaic law, as was the death penalty for adulterers:

    Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

    Leviticus 20:10 ¶And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

    But under the Jesus Christ's New Covenant, we are to show mercy to sinners, just as we are sinners ourselves:

    John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto [Jesus] a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
    4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
    5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned [to death]: but what sayest thou?
    6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
    7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
    8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
    9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
    10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
    11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    A relationship where there is no sex can possibly be repented of. Certainly we want to say a person can repent of all their sin.
    Yes, and repenting of all their sin includes repenting of any homosexual sex, just as it includes repenting of any adultery:

    1 Corinthians 6:9 ¶Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to bibleverse2 For Your Post:

    Jacob (May 8th, 2019)

  14. #26
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    18,637
    Thanks
    125
    Thanked 931 Times in 857 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    125424
    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    Note that the death penalty for homosexual sex was an Old Covenant Mosaic law, as was the death penalty for adulterers:

    Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

    Leviticus 20:10 ¶And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

    But under the Jesus Christ's New Covenant, we are to show mercy to sinners, just as we are sinners ourselves:

    John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto [Jesus] a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
    4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
    5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned [to death]: but what sayest thou?
    6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
    7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
    8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
    9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
    10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
    11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.



    Yes, and repenting of all their sin includes repenting of any homosexual sex, just as it includes repenting of any adultery:

    1 Corinthians 6:9 ¶Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
    Very good. I have no problem with this. I do wonder if a person does not repent if they should die for the sin they have committed, that is, if the Law has not been abolished.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

  15. #27
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    111
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do wonder if a person does not repent if they should die for the sin they have committed, that is, if the Law has not been abolished.
    Note that the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been abolished (Ephesians 2:15). But even under Jesus Christ's New Covenant law (John 14:15), if a person does not repent before he dies (1 John 5:16b), or before Jesus' future, Second Coming (Luke 12:45-46), then that person will not be saved from hell.

    For Hebrews 10:26-29 shows that even Christians, who have been sanctified by Jesus Christ's sacrificial blood (Hebrews 10:29), which sanctification requires faith (Acts 26:18b, cf. Romans 3:25-26), can, after they get saved, wrongly employ their free will to commit sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26). By doing this, these Christians are unwittingly trampling on Jesus and His sacrificial blood and doing despite unto the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29), turning the grace of God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4), so that their ultimate fate will be worse than if they had never been saved at all (2 Peter 2:20-22). Even though Jesus' sacrificial blood is sufficient to forgive all sins (1 John 2:2), it actually forgives only the sins of Christians which are past (Romans 3:25-26), as in sins which have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9,7). Jesus' sacrificial blood does not remit unrepentant sins (Hebrews 10:26-29). So a Christian can ultimately lose his salvation if he wrongly employs his free will to commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

    Some Christians say that Hebrews 10:26-29 is not for Christians. But the immediate context of Hebrews 10:26-29 is Hebrews 10:25, which is addressing "we" Christians. Hebrews 10:25-29 is the same idea as Hebrews 3:13: Christians need to gather together and exhort each other so that no Christian will fall into any unrepentant sin. For any unrepentant sin will ultimately result in the loss of salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46, Matthew 7:22-23, Galatians 5:19-21; 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13; 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

    One way that a Christian could come to desire to commit a sin without repentance would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term) that he continues in it over time until his heart becomes hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:13), to where his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12), to where he quenches the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), to where he sears his conscience as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where he becomes so infatuated with his sin that he can no longer endure the sound doctrine of the Bible (such as the doctrine of Hebrews 10:26-29), but instead latches onto a mistaken, man-made teaching which contradicts the Bible (2 Timothy 4:3-4), such as the mistaken teaching which assures Christians that there is no way that they can ever lose their salvation, even if they commit a sin without repentance.

  16. #28
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    18,637
    Thanks
    125
    Thanked 931 Times in 857 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    125424
    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    Note that the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been abolished (Ephesians 2:15). But even under Jesus Christ's New Covenant law (John 14:15), if a person does not repent before he dies (1 John 5:16b), or before Jesus' future, Second Coming (Luke 12:45-46), then that person will not be saved from hell.

    For Hebrews 10:26-29 shows that even Christians, who have been sanctified by Jesus Christ's sacrificial blood (Hebrews 10:29), which sanctification requires faith (Acts 26:18b, cf. Romans 3:25-26), can, after they get saved, wrongly employ their free will to commit sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26). By doing this, these Christians are unwittingly trampling on Jesus and His sacrificial blood and doing despite unto the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29), turning the grace of God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:4), so that their ultimate fate will be worse than if they had never been saved at all (2 Peter 2:20-22). Even though Jesus' sacrificial blood is sufficient to forgive all sins (1 John 2:2), it actually forgives only the sins of Christians which are past (Romans 3:25-26), as in sins which have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9,7). Jesus' sacrificial blood does not remit unrepentant sins (Hebrews 10:26-29). So a Christian can ultimately lose his salvation if he wrongly employs his free will to commit unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46).

    Some Christians say that Hebrews 10:26-29 is not for Christians. But the immediate context of Hebrews 10:26-29 is Hebrews 10:25, which is addressing "we" Christians. Hebrews 10:25-29 is the same idea as Hebrews 3:13: Christians need to gather together and exhort each other so that no Christian will fall into any unrepentant sin. For any unrepentant sin will ultimately result in the loss of salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46, Matthew 7:22-23, Galatians 5:19-21; 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13; 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

    One way that a Christian could come to desire to commit a sin without repentance would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term) that he continues in it over time until his heart becomes hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (Hebrews 3:13), to where his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12), to where he quenches the Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:19), to where he sears his conscience as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2), to where he becomes so infatuated with his sin that he can no longer endure the sound doctrine of the Bible (such as the doctrine of Hebrews 10:26-29), but instead latches onto a mistaken, man-made teaching which contradicts the Bible (2 Timothy 4:3-4), such as the mistaken teaching which assures Christians that there is no way that they can ever lose their salvation, even if they commit a sin without repentance.
    Whether or not a believer can lose their salvation is an interesting idea or discussion.

    As for past sins, was this before Christ, such as with His death and resurrection? Sins previously committed.

  17. #29
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    111
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 34 Times in 29 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    As for past sins, was this before Christ, such as with His death and resurrection?
    "Past" sins (Romans 3:25-26) can refer to sins committed by Christians even after Jesus Christ's death and resurrection, so long as these sins have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9,7).

    For regarding repenting from a sin (Acts 8:22; 2 Corinthians 12:21, Revelation 3:19), that means to change one's mind regarding that sin, in the sense of having no plans to ever commit it again, knowing that God has made it possible for Christians not to sin (John 8:34-36, Romans 8:2-14, Romans 6:1-23; 2 Corinthians 7:1), even when they are tempted to do so (2 Peter 2:9a; 1 Corinthians 10:13, Matthew 6:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Romans 8:13, Galatians 5:16).

    But if, sometime after repenting from a sin, Christians nonetheless wrongly employ their free will to commit that sin again, this does not mean that they had not previously repented from that sin, or that they as continued believers in Jesus Christ and His Gospel are not saved from hell. What they need to do is to repent from that sin again and confess it to God, and they will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9, cf. Luke 17:4).

    Satan wants Christians to fail to continue to come to Jesus Christ, to think that it is hopeless, that they are just too evil for Jesus, when in fact Jesus is waiting with open arms to forgive them for their sins, which weigh down on them so heavily (Matthew 11:28-30).

    For every believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31) can know that he is presently saved from hell (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), if, after he became a Christian, he repented from his sins (1 John 3:6) and confessed them to God (1 John 1:9). And he can be sure that as a saved person, he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Romans 8:28-39), which means to obey Him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a Christian fails during his lifetime, sometime subsequent to his initial repentance, even if he fails and commits sin seventy-times-seven times in a single day (Matthew 18:21-22, Luke 17:4), he can be sure that so long as he sincerely repents from every act of sin and confesses it to God, he will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9). He will lose his salvation ultimately only if he wrongly employs his free will to do something like committing a sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), or becoming utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).

  18. #30
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakewood, Washington
    Posts
    18,637
    Thanks
    125
    Thanked 931 Times in 857 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    125424
    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    "Past" sins (Romans 3:25-26) can refer to sins committed by Christians even after Jesus Christ's death and resurrection, so long as these sins have been repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9,7).

    For regarding repenting from a sin (Acts 8:22; 2 Corinthians 12:21, Revelation 3:19), that means to change one's mind regarding that sin, in the sense of having no plans to ever commit it again, knowing that God has made it possible for Christians not to sin (John 8:34-36, Romans 8:2-14, Romans 6:1-23; 2 Corinthians 7:1), even when they are tempted to do so (2 Peter 2:9a; 1 Corinthians 10:13, Matthew 6:13; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Romans 8:13, Galatians 5:16).

    But if, sometime after repenting from a sin, Christians nonetheless wrongly employ their free will to commit that sin again, this does not mean that they had not previously repented from that sin, or that they as continued believers in Jesus Christ and His Gospel are not saved from hell. What they need to do is to repent from that sin again and confess it to God, and they will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9, cf. Luke 17:4).

    Satan wants Christians to fail to continue to come to Jesus Christ, to think that it is hopeless, that they are just too evil for Jesus, when in fact Jesus is waiting with open arms to forgive them for their sins, which weigh down on them so heavily (Matthew 11:28-30).

    For every believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31) can know that he is presently saved from hell (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), if, after he became a Christian, he repented from his sins (1 John 3:6) and confessed them to God (1 John 1:9). And he can be sure that as a saved person, he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Romans 8:28-39), which means to obey Him (1 John 5:3, John 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a Christian fails during his lifetime, sometime subsequent to his initial repentance, even if he fails and commits sin seventy-times-seven times in a single day (Matthew 18:21-22, Luke 17:4), he can be sure that so long as he sincerely repents from every act of sin and confesses it to God, he will be completely forgiven (1 John 1:9). He will lose his salvation ultimately only if he wrongly employs his free will to do something like committing a sin without repentance (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 12:45-46), or becoming utterly lazy without repentance (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a, Romans 2:6-8), or committing apostasy (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12).
    Good post.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us