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Thread: Is the Law of Moses good or bad?

  1. #31
    Journeyman k0de's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Yes, the purpose of the Law.
    Agree

    You believe that a person cannot be forgiven for just anything. That there is something a person cannot be forgiven of or for. I believe that is what you have said here with your NO
    NO not at all Jacob. My mistake. Let me explain. I believe that the Law can not forgive some one. With the Law what is done is done. For example eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. But yes. Someone can be forgiven through the grace of Lord Jesus Christ if they have a contrite heart.

    Should people obey, observe, the Law?
    YES.

    It is how we know what sin is, but we know sin is the opposite of obedience so do we obey the Law or obey Jesus or what?
    Obey both

    Do we acknowledge penalty or punishment for breaking or transgressing the Law?
    Yes both.

    Can we love someone and witness against them at the same time?
    Yes I do that to my Son. My only begotten on a daily basis.
    Abraham did not do such things.... (John 8:40)

  2. #32
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0de View Post
    Agree
    NO not at all Jacob. My mistake. Let me explain. I believe that the Law can not forgive some one. With the Law what is done is done. For example eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. But yes. Someone can be forgiven through the grace of Lord Jesus Christ if they have a contrite heart.
    Why do people talk about these things and say what is done is done? Are we talking after the punishment? Or that a person breaks a law and there is a simplicity to it such that there is a punishment?

    YES.
    Why?

    Obey both
    Why both?

    Yes both.
    I urge you to read the following thread.

    Thread: Penalty. The existence of a penalty for breaking a law.

    Yes I do that to my Son. My only begotten on a daily basis.
    That is an interesting thing to say. You capitalized son by saying Son. Are you relating this like you are God and your son is like Jesus God's Son? You are relating family in regard to a witness before God? You are correct that it is simple. I am talking about the death penalty or other penalty I guess.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

  3. #33
    Journeyman k0de's Avatar
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    That is an interesting thing to say. You capitalized son by saying Son. Are you relating this like you are God and your son is like Jesus God's Son? You are relating family in regard to a witness before God? You are correct that it is simple. I am talking about the death penalty or other penalty I guess.
    NO. Not even close. More like family in regards to a witness before God?

    I'm looking into your link. Be patient with me I'm some what authistic. More like the tortoises in Looney tunes. But by the power of God I always beat the rabbit. Brb.... Lol
    Abraham did not do such things.... (John 8:40)

  4. #34
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0de View Post
    NO. Not even close. More like family in regards to a witness before God?

    I'm looking into your link. Be patient with me I'm some what authistic. More like the tortoises in Looney tunes. But by the power of God I always beat the rabbit. Brb.... Lol
    Not a problem.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

  5. #35
    Over 500 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post

    No, it doesn't. It condemns it.
    What you have said here demonstrates that you do not know the bible.

    I mean, it is not my wish to be unkind, but an educated person can't allow the uninformed practice foolery. The bible clearly states that rape is institutionalized in the Law of Moses, in the Book of Deuteronomy.

    In chapter 22 a man can force a woman, and if it be found out, pay her father 50 shekels of silver.

    In Deuteronomy chapter 21, a man can go to the slaughter, and wipe out a whole family with the sword, but spare an attractive woman. Then, after he slaughtered her family, he can shave her head and allow her to mourn the dead for 30 days. After that time he may have sex with her as much as he wishes and make her his wife.

    Now, if you think for one minute that any woman who just watched you slaughter her entire family in cold blood with sword and spear would like to sleep with you; you're crazy. It's institutionalized rape in the form of pillaging captives, and slaughtering the rest of the people.

    "ďWhen you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, 12 then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. 13 She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her."
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

  6. #36
    Over 500 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do.

    You are making a false accusation against me, so likely against others as well.
    Now I understand your point Jacob. Yes....I see it now.

    Jacob, if you believe that God told Moses to kill that man for picking up sticks, as the bible claims that it does, then you do in fact believe that God is a killer.

    And, if you believe that God decided to kill all of the entire race because they did not please him, but spare Noah.....then spare his family but wipe out every other living thing....

    Then, you do believe God is a killer. Your God is a killer.

    You may be offended, but I'm not going to apologize for the truth.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

  7. #37
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    What you have said here demonstrates that you do not know the bible.

    I mean, it is not my wish to be unkind, but an educated person can't allow the uninformed practice foolery. The bible clearly states that rape is institutionalized in the Law of Moses, in the Book of Deuteronomy.

    In chapter 22 a man can force a woman, and if it be found out, pay her father 50 shekels of silver.

    In Deuteronomy chapter 21, a man can go to the slaughter, and wipe out a whole family with the sword, but spare an attractive woman. Then, after he slaughtered her family, he can shave her head and allow her to mourn the dead for 30 days. After that time he may have sex with her as much as he wishes and make her his wife.

    Now, if you think for one minute that any woman who just watched you slaughter her entire family in cold blood with sword and spear would like to sleep with you; you're crazy. It's institutionalized rape in the form of pillaging captives, and slaughtering the rest of the people.

    "ďWhen you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, 12 then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. 13 She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14 And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her."
    There are better ways to look at these.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Now I understand your point Jacob. Yes....I see it now.

    Jacob, if you believe that God told Moses to kill that man for picking up sticks, as the bible claims that it does, then you do in fact believe that God is a killer.

    And, if you believe that God decided to kill all of the entire race because they did not please him, but spare Noah.....then spare his family but wipe out every other living thing....

    Then, you do believe God is a killer. Your God is a killer.

    You may be offended, but I'm not going to apologize for the truth.
    It does not say that God is a killer. But if you choose to go against God, what should happen to you?

  8. #38
    Over 500 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    There are better ways to look at these.


    It does not say that God is a killer. But if you choose to go against God, what should happen to you?
    What happens to you when love loves you Jacob? You said you believe God is Love. Does love hurt you or help you?

    God didn’t kill those people or demand their killing, because that’s not what love does. But the OT clearly shows that God kills.

    So, what’s that all about?

    You think God made us so he could kill us?

    OMG. Check yourselves. You don’t know God. You’re like Elvis playing Vegas, but at least Elvis crushed no matter where he was playing.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    What happens to you when love loves you Jacob? You said you believe God is Love. Does love hurt you or help you?

    God didn’t kill those people or demand their killing, because that’s not what love does. But the OT clearly shows that God kills.

    So, what’s that all about?

    You think God made us so he could kill us?

    OMG. Check yourselves. You don’t know God. You’re like Elvis playing Vegas, but at least Elvis crushed no matter where he was playing.
    Not at all. I do not think any of that. I simply believe what the scriptures say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Not at all. I do not think any of that. I simply believe what the scriptures say.
    Jacob, what you call scriptures means bible. It is the Bible that teaches us that God wants to kill us. It is stated over and over again, beginning with Genesis, and ending with Revelations.

    The Bible teaches that God is angry, filled with wrath, jealousy and hate, and heís going to be killing us as he has done in the past because we are not good enough.

    So, what youíre saying is that you do in fact believe that God is a killer if you want to believe the Bible. And that is your right. You get to believe whatever you want. There is death in this world, it is all around us and in us. We are all going to die. Maybe thatís why so many people believe that God is an angry killer.

    For some of us, the idea that God is a blood thirsty killer is so reprehensible as to make it actually evil to think. We donít know why we are here to suffer death, but we donít believe itís because God is evil. We believe that God is good in spite of the death around us.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Jacob, what you call scriptures means bible. It is the Bible that teaches us that God wants to kill us. It is stated over and over again, beginning with Genesis, and ending with Revelations.

    The Bible teaches that God is angry, filled with wrath, jealousy and hate, and heís going to be killing us as he has done in the past because we are not good enough.

    So, what youíre saying is that you do in fact believe that God is a killer if you want to believe the Bible. And that is your right. You get to believe whatever you want. There is death in this world, it is all around us and in us. We are all going to die. Maybe thatís why so many people believe that God is an angry killer.

    For some of us, the idea that God is a blood thirsty killer is so reprehensible as to make it actually evil to think. We donít know why we are here to suffer death, but we donít believe itís because God is evil. We believe that God is good in spite of the death around us.
    You clearly don't know God as He describes Himself in His word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Bad.......
    Are you nuts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Bad.......some of it was actually the Code of Hammurabi. Are you familiar with it? Moses got some of his laws from that earlier piece
    Moses received the Ten Commandments from God. Spare us your antiChristian antiJewish propaganda

    "All aboard the Trump Train. Next stop, Victory Station, 2020!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    You clearly don't know God as He describes Himself in His word.
    But you do?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    But you do?
    If I didn't, I wouldn't have said anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrumpTrainCA View Post
    Are you nuts?



    Moses received the Ten Commandments from God. Spare us your antiChristian antiJewish propaganda
    Am I nuts? Worthless question.

    Moses got the Bible from God huh? Well, just so you are aware, he didnít get it all from God. He got the eye for an eye part from the Code of Hammurabi.

    So, I guess it would be fair to say that he got some of it from God and some of it from the Babylonians.

    Or another way to say it is that Christians believe he got it from God, because the Bible says he did.

    Another way to view it, is that there is no way the real God had anything to do with it whatsoever because itís filled with evil things like killing and raping people.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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