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Thread: Is the Law of Moses good or bad?

  1. #16
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    The law is a good thing.

    But if you try to keep the law, it will kill you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    okay, that sounds like a good thing to say

    it is good to keep God's commands or commandments
    but there is a way of thinking where the law will only find you guilty
    what does it mean keeping the law will kill you?
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

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    Over 500 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I have personally experienced something in regard to the Sabbath commandment to not pick up sticks in this regard. So I don't totally know or understand how to answer you. But if you are saying God would never follow through, that is one view.
    Yes. You are absolutely correct. It is one view. Itís the exact opposite view that all you people have which is that God is a killer.

    I absolutely go on record. I disagree with you 100%. Know why? Because God cannot be that and love at the same time.

    Do you believe God is love Jacob?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Yes. You are absolutely correct. It is one view. Itís the exact opposite view that all you people have which is that God is a killer.

    I absolutely go on record. I disagree with you 100%. Know why? Because God cannot be that and love at the same time.

    Do you believe God is love Jacob?
    I do.

    You are making a false accusation against me, so likely against others as well.

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    Over 500 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post

    You are making a false accusation against me, so likely against others as well.
    What? How have I made false accusation upon you? If I have made false accusation I will apologze. Correct me.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Over 500 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do.
    Great. I do too. So, we have something to agree upon. We both believe God is love.

    Jacob, please tell me. What is love as you know it? What does the Bible teach you love is?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

  6. #21
    Over 500 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Jacob, I have to go to bed now, I have work tomorrow. I see that you linger on your explanation of love, I believe that 1 Cor 13 is the best the Bible teaches about love. So, look that one up if you didn’t already know it, and I’ll talk to you later.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

  7. #22
    Journeyman k0de's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Scripture says that the Law is good. But we often think of it as bad. Why is this so?
    The law is good. It's is only bad when looked into as a way of salvation.

    There is something that the Law cannot do, save you. But Jesus can do that (save you). So is the Law inferior to Jesus?
    When use for salvation yes. It is inferior to Jesus.

    I am talking about the Law of Moses. God's law is also found in the New Covenant, but people debate about if there should be any punishment or penalty for wrong done.

    How is the Law good? In that it points out sin.
    That is all that it was good for. That it point out sin and other civil and moral justifications.


    Is this sin all sin that can be repented of? Can a person repent of anything and be saved?
    NO.


    What do you think? If we did not have the Law could we still point out sin?
    I think we will never know that sin exist without the law.

    Also, is it bad to preach the Law in light of the preaching of Jesus?
    Yes if preached by itself. But also no. I think it's good thing when preached along side Jesus.
    Remember that "Paul taught that the purpose of the Law was to serve as a ďtutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith."
    Abraham did not do such things.... (John 8:40)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    How is the Law good? In that it points out sin. Is this sin all sin that can be repented of? Can a person repent of anything and be saved? What do you think? If we did not have the Law could we still point out sin?

    Also, is it bad to preach the Law in light of the preaching of Jesus?
    Law is good because it defines good from bad. Mosaic Law is a set of laws given to the Jews but not gentiles. God demonstrated through His chosen people that every single human is subject to a covenant either to be saved or to be condemned. NT requires us to follow Jesus teaching, while Jesus said,

    Luke 16:16 (NIV2011)
    The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.


    Will you follow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Killing people for picking up sticks on Saturday, codes for keeping slaves and their treatment, institutionalized rape, blood sacrifice, among other evils.
    I have explained all this many times here and in other forums. In the end it only says that you have no faith of God.

    Moreover please provide verses as what you said here involves false accusations by taking the Bible out of context.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    I have explained all this many times here and in other forums. In the end it only says that you have no faith of God.
    No it doesn't. You are mistaken and have spoken falsely. You bear false witness which is a sin according to the law you praise.

    Moreover please provide verses as what you said here involves false accusations by taking the Bible out of context.
    You just said you have explained this many times.....so why would you need me to provide you the verses?

    I'll do it after work maybe.

    Anyway, there is nothing to explain. The OT does in fact support slavery, institutionalized rape, blood sacrifice, and other evils as I have stated previously. It is wrong and it is in the bible. You're the one that's gonna have to deal with it yourself - I've already made my peace with it.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

  11. #26
    Super Moderator JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    The OT does in fact support slavery,
    Yup.

    institutionalized rape,
    No, it doesn't. It condemns it.

    blood sacrifice,
    ...of animals, never of humans.

    And such is only required of one specific group of people.

    and other evils as I have stated previously.
    Such as?

    It is wrong and it is in the bible.
    Actually, of the things you listed, only one of them is morally wrong, another is wrong only under certain conditions, and the last is neither moral nor immoral, inherently.

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    What? How have I made false accusation upon you? If I have made false accusation I will apologze. Correct me.
    My apologies. I thought you did here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    It’s the exact opposite view that all you people have which is that God is a killer.
    I thought that you said that I have the view that God is a killer.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Great. I do too. So, we have something to agree upon. We both believe God is love.

    Jacob, please tell me. What is love as you know it? What does the Bible teach you love is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Jacob, I have to go to bed now, I have work tomorrow. I see that you linger on your explanation of love, I believe that 1 Cor 13 is the best the Bible teaches about love. So, look that one up if you didn’t already know it, and I’ll talk to you later.
    Yes, 1 Corinthians 13 is really good for what love is. I hope that when you read this you have had a good day at work. I don't expect to hear from you as the Sabbath is approaching here, but you can post if you have something to say before that.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by k0de View Post
    The law is good. It's is only bad when looked into as a way of salvation.

    When use for salvation yes. It is inferior to Jesus.

    That is all that it was good for. That it point out sin and other civil and moral justifications.


    NO.


    I think we will never know that sin exist without the law.

    Yes if preached by itself. But also no. I think it's good thing when preached along side Jesus.
    Remember that "Paul taught that the purpose of the Law was to serve as a “tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith."
    Yes, the purpose of the Law.

    You believe that a person cannot be forgiven for just anything. That there is something a person cannot be forgiven of or for. I believe that is what you have said here with your NO.

    Should people obey, observe, the Law? It is how we know what sin is, but we know sin is the opposite of obedience so do we obey the Law or obey Jesus or what? Do we acknowledge penalty or punishment for breaking or transgressing the Law? Can we love someone and witness against them at the same time?
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    Law is good because it defines good from bad. Mosaic Law is a set of laws given to the Jews but not gentiles. God demonstrated through His chosen people that every single human is subject to a covenant either to be saved or to be condemned. NT requires us to follow Jesus teaching, while Jesus said,

    Luke 16:16 (NIV2011)
    The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.


    Will you follow?
    I am not sure what you are asking me. Will I follow what? The scripture? I do. The New Covenant is for the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Some people used to be Gentiles. Is there such a thing as a Gentile who is born again or who is a new covenant believer?
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    in beginning he created gods the heavens and the earth

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