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Thread: MARK 1:4 JOHN'S BAPTISM

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    MARK 1:4 JOHN'S BAPTISM

    Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

    John's baptism was for the remission of sins, to cleanse Israel as priests in the coming Davidic kingdom, in which, Israel would reign with Christ on earth.

    1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

    John baptized with water according to the covenant and the law. Jesus would baptize not with water, but with the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost came on the disciples at Pentecost according to the New Testament. The New Testament was only for Israel and Judah. By the Holy Spirit, Israel would be given a new heart and would be able to keep the law.

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    First off, I'm going to assume you meant "New Covenant" in the statement "The New Testament was only for Israel and Judah." Else you will have to reject the entirety of the scriptures as having any applicability to you (albeit, you Dispensationalists aren't far off from asserting just that).

    Secondly, the idea that the New Covenant is only for Israel is simply false. Start with the fact that Paul, whose ministry is to the gentiles, is a minister of the New Covenant.

    2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    1 Corinthians 11:23-34 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. 27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world. 33 So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together. 34 Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment. And when I come I will give further directions.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    First off, I'm going to assume you meant "New Covenant" in the statement "The New Testament was only for Israel and Judah." Else you will have to reject the entirety of the scriptures as having any applicability to you (albeit, you Dispensationalists aren't far off from asserting just that).

    Secondly, the idea that the New Covenant is only for Israel is simply false. Start with the fact that Paul, whose ministry is to the gentiles, is a minister of the New Covenant.

    2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    1 Corinthians 11:23-34 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. 27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world. 33 So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together. 34 Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment. And when I come I will give further directions.
    Hello

    The new testament or the new covenant are the same thing. The new testament is only given to the house of Israel and Judah. We are not under the new testament. It was given to Israel to keep the law.

    How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 2 Corinthians 3:8

    Paul is an able minister of the new testament in regard to the ministry of the Spirit not the law.

    We have the spiritual blessings of the new testament.

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    Right Divider (April 7th, 2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello

    The new testament or the new covenant are the same thing. The new testament is only given to the house of Israel and Judah. We are not under the new testament. It was given to Israel to keep the law.
    No - the New Testament refers to the collection of scriptures written after Christ. This would include all of Paul's writings, for instance. Do you now reject Paul too?

    How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 2 Corinthians 3:8

    Paul is an able minister of the new testament in regard to the ministry of the Spirit not the law.

    We have the spiritual blessings of the new testament.
    If Paul is a minister of the New Covenant, and his ministry was to the Gentiles, then the New Covenant applies to the Gentiles.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

    John's baptism was for the remission of sins, to cleanse Israel as priests in the coming Davidic kingdom, in which, Israel would reign with Christ on earth.
    What about Jesus did John also baptized Him for the remission of sin?

    1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
    A consuming fire or a non consuming fire like that of the burning bush?

    John baptized with water according to the covenant and the law. Jesus would baptize not with water, but with the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost came on the disciples at Pentecost according to the New Testament. The New Testament was only for Israel and Judah. By the Holy Spirit, Israel would be given a new heart and would be able to keep the law.
    How is the New Testament only for Israel and Judah?
    Abraham did not do such things.... (John 8:40)

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0de View Post
    What about Jesus did John also baptized Him for the remission of sin?

    A consuming fire or a non consuming fire like that of the burning bush?

    How is the New Testament only for Israel and Judah?
    Hi

    Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness

    Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jeremiah 31:31

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hi

    Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness

    Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jeremiah 31:31
    Thanks...

    This is an excellent topic. We know that the Church has universally accepted baptism as the rite of Christianity. But there is disagreement regarding what baptism accomplishes, who is worthy of baptism, and the proper mode and practices. From my sources I learned that there is 3 major position on baptism.

    1. Baptism necessary for salvation
    2. Baptism achieving salvation, But is only a sign and seal of salvation.
    3.God along is responsible for salvation and baptism is nothing but a testimony.

    These three position are in disagreement on how baptism work with conversion.

    So if Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. In which of these three position would you say His baptism would be consider?

    And which of these 3 position do you consider?

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0de View Post
    Thanks...

    This is an excellent topic. We know that the Church has universally accepted baptism as the rite of Christianity. But there is disagreement regarding what baptism accomplishes, who is worthy of baptism, and the proper mode and practices. From my sources I learned that there is 3 major position on baptism.

    1. Baptism necessary for salvation
    2. Baptism achieving salvation, But is only a sign and seal of salvation.
    3.God along is responsible for salvation and baptism is nothing but a testimony.

    These three position are in disagreement on how baptism work with conversion.

    So if Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. In which of these three position would you say His baptism would be consider?

    And which of these 3 position do you consider?
    You're still missing the correct position.

    WATER baptism has no place in the body of Christ.

    Yes, I know that this is a very unpopular position, but it is the correct one. Paul says that there is ONE baptism in the body of Christ and there is no water involved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You're still missing the correct position.
    Which is?

    WATER baptism has no place in the body of Christ.Yes, I know that this is a very unpopular position, but it is the correct one. Paul says that there is ONE baptism in the body of Christ and there is no water involved.
    Well then how can Paul explain to Peter what took place in Acts 10:44-48?

    "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God. Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days."
    Abraham did not do such things.... (John 8:40)

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0de View Post
    Which is?
    What I said in the rest of the post.

    Quote Originally Posted by k0de View Post
    Well then how can Paul explain to Peter what took place in Acts 10:44-48?

    While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God. Then Peter said, ôSurely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days."
    Peter was not a minister of the body of Christ. Peter and the eleven were given a calling to judge Israel (twelve thrones, etc.). The body of Christ is not Israel and visa versa.
    Paul specifically says that there is ONE baptism in the body of Christ. That is clearly the baptism by the Spirit into the body and has nothing to do with a water ceremony.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    glorydaz (April 10th, 2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    What I said in the rest of the post.


    Peter was not a minister of the body of Christ. Peter and the eleven were given a calling to judge Israel (twelve thrones, etc.). The body of Christ is not Israel and visa versa.
    Paul specifically says that there is ONE baptism in the body of Christ. That is clearly the baptism by the Spirit into the body and has nothing to do with a water ceremony.
    I think I'm starting to understand your position. Question? And Correct me if I'm wrong.

    "The body of Christ is not Israel and visa versa."

    Do you mean the Church when you say the body of Christ. And the decedents of Abraham (Jews)when you say Israel. If I'm correct this will clarify my understanding.

    I'm I correct?
    Abraham did not do such things.... (John 8:40)

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0de View Post
    I think I'm starting to understand your position. Question? And Correct me if I'm wrong.

    "The body of Christ is not Israel and visa versa."

    Do you mean the Church when you say the body of Christ. And the decedents of Abraham (Jews)when you say Israel. If I'm correct this will clarify my understanding.

    I'm I correct?
    There are many churches in the Bible. So I stick to using the term "the body of Christ" to refer to "the church which is His body". This is the mystery church revealed to and through the apostle Paul.

    And no, Israel are the descents of Jacob (renamed Israel). Israel was Abraham's grandson.

    Abraham had many descendants that are not Israel (one of his descendants is Ishmael).
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    k0de (April 9th, 2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by k0de View Post
    Thanks...

    This is an excellent topic. We know that the Church has universally accepted baptism as the rite of Christianity. But there is disagreement regarding what baptism accomplishes, who is worthy of baptism, and the proper mode and practices. From my sources I learned that there is 3 major position on baptism.

    1. Baptism necessary for salvation
    2. Baptism achieving salvation, But is only a sign and seal of salvation.
    3.God along is responsible for salvation and baptism is nothing but a testimony.

    These three position are in disagreement on how baptism work with conversion.

    So if Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. In which of these three position would you say His baptism would be consider?

    And which of these 3 position do you consider?
    Hello

    Thanks for your comments and questions.

    I do not hold to any of these positions.

    Baptism was for Israel. Jews had to believe in the name of Jesus to be saved unto eternal life. They had to believe on Jesus as Christ the Son of God. Then they were commanded to be baptized for the remission of Sins, just like John's baptism. After Jesus was crucified they were to be baptized for the remissions of sins and to receive the Holy Ghost to enable them to keep the law to enter the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth and reign over the Gentiles with Christ.

    Paul never commanded baptism under this dispensation of grace.

    Israel was set aside gradually and Paul was given revelations by Christ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    There are many churches in the Bible. So I stick to using the term "the body of Christ" to refer to "the church which is His body". This is the mystery church revealed to and through the apostle Paul.

    And no, Israel are the descents of Jacob (renamed Israel). Israel was Abraham's grandson.

    Abraham had many descendants that are not Israel (one of his descendants is Ishmael).
    Now I think we can communicate better. I starting to see more light with this clarification.
    Thanks
    Abraham did not do such things.... (John 8:40)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello

    Thanks for your comments and questions.

    I do not hold to any of these positions.

    Baptism was for Israel. Jews had to believe in the name of Jesus to be saved unto eternal life. They had to believe on Jesus as Christ the Son of God. Then they were commanded to be baptized for the remission of Sins, just like John's baptism. After Jesus was crucified they were to be baptized for the remissions of sins and to receive the Holy Ghost to enable them to keep the law to enter the prophetic Davidic kingdom on earth and reign over the Gentiles with Christ.

    Paul never commanded baptism under this dispensation of grace.

    Israel was set aside gradually and Paul was given revelations by Christ.
    I'm starting to see more light about your position. Before I couldn't distinguish what you meant with Isreal and and the body Christ. But know I do. Another poster Right Divider explained it in our conversation.

    I'm going to look more closely to the claim that water baptism was for the children of Israel only. Thanks for the guide.
    Abraham did not do such things.... (John 8:40)

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