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Thread: ROMANS 11 WHO IS THE WILD OLIVE TREE?

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    ROMANS 11 WHO IS THE WILD OLIVE TREE?

    Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

    God is not done with unbelieving Israel.

    Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    The remnant is believing Israel and also believing Gentiles. God has always made provision for the Gentiles to be saved through Israel.

    11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    The election, the Jewish and Gentile believing remnant, has obtained to righteousness by grace through faith. Unbelieving Israel has been blinded.

    11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    Israel fell because of their rejection of Jesus as Christ, the Son of God. The gospel went out to the Gentiles to provoke Israel to jealousy in order to restore them.

    Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

    Israel, as can be seen in verse 19 above, would also be provoked to jealousy by a foolish nation. The foolish nation is believing Israel. The foolish nation is the remnant of believing Jews and believing Gentiles.

    Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

    Israel's fulness is when Israel obtains all the promises and purpose of God.

    11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

    11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

    Paul, in the book of Romans is addressing three existing groups:

    1 unbelieving Jews and Gentiles.

    2 Jews and Gentiles in the body of Christ who believed the gospel of Christ preached by Paul.

    3 Jew and Gentile kingdom saints who are in Christ by believing the gospel of the kingdom.


    In verse 13 Paul is speaking to Gentile kingdom saints. Paul is saying to the kingdom saint Gentiles (not Gentiles in the church, the body of Christ, according to Paul's gospel) that he will provoke them which are of his flesh, the unbelieving Jews, to salvation.

    Romans 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

    1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    In verses 6 and 7 above, those called are Jews or Gentiles called into the body of Christ, and Jews or Gentiles called into the kingdom. See 1 Corinthians 1:2 1:24 7:18

    Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

    9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

    Verses 24 and 25 above refers to the holy nation, the little flock, the believing remnant of both Jew and Gentile.

    To conclude then, the Gentiles in Romans 11:13 are Gentile kingdom saints.

    Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

    11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

    In leviticus 23:20 the bread of the firstfruits is holy. The bread is made from flour baked with leaven and offered by the priest. The leavened bread speaks of unbelieving Israel, which is also the root and branches in verse 16.

    11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

    In verse 17 above, thou is Jew or Gentile kingdom saints, the little flock, the remnant. The remnant is the wild olive tree. The root and broken off branches are unbelieving Israel.

    It can be seen from John 15 below that broken off branches refers to unfruitful, unbelieving Israel.

    John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

    15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

    In Matthew below the kingdom will be taken from unbelieving Israel and given to the fruitful nation of Israel. They are not all Israel, which are of Israel, it is only the believing, promised seed. Romans 9:6

    Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    The election of grace, the remnant, would also be cut off if they fell into unbelief. They would not get their inheritance in the promised Davidic kingdom.

    11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

    11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

    Unbelieving Israel would be grafted back into their olive tree if they repented and believed.

    11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    Israel will be restored when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in; that is when the Gentiles have fulfilled their purpose as determined by God.

    11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    Jesus will fulfill the New Testament and restore Israel.

    In conclusion, the wild olive tree is the remnant of believing kingdom Jews and Gentiles. The Gentiles spoken of are part of the wild olive tree grafted into the good olive tree; they are kingdom saints, members of the remnant, the little flock, that will enter the coming kingdom on earth. These Gentiles are not in the body of Christ.
    Last edited by DougE; April 6th, 2019 at 03:35 PM.

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    delete corrected title

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    ...
    In conclusion, the wild olive tree is the believing remnant of Israel. The Gentiles spoken of are part of the wild olive tree grafted into the good olive tree; they are kingdom saints, members of the remnant, the little flock, that will enter the coming kingdom on earth. These Gentiles are not in the body of Christ.
    Wrong.

    Romans 11:13-21 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

    17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

    Paul tells us who he is speaking to here: The Gentiles. He distinguishes them as the wild olive shoot vs the natural branches.

    The vine is Christ, the natural branches are Israel, and the wild shoots are the gentiles.

    John 15:1-17 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

    5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

    9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

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    The "remnant" are Jews that believe in Christ.
    I believe that the writings of the Qumran Essenes (Dead Sea Scrolls)
    clearly show that they were fully prepared for Jesus Messiah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Wrong.

    Romans 11:13-21 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

    17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

    Paul tells us who he is speaking to here: The Gentiles. He distinguishes them as the wild olive shoot vs the natural branches.

    The vine is Christ, the natural branches are Israel, and the wild shoots are the gentiles.

    John 15:1-17 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

    5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

    9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.
    Hi again

    In Romans 11:13 how do you know he is not talking to Gentiles that are in Christ by believing Peter's gospel.....a kingdom Gentile if you will.....not in the body of Christ by Paul's gospel.

    In Romans 11:17 how do you know that you is not talking about a kingdom Jew or a kingdom Gentile

    In John 15 you are right the branches are Israel but how do you know the shoots are not kingdom Jews or Gentiles

    What makes you certain that they are Gentiles in the body of Christ saved by Paul's gospel

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hi again

    In Romans 11:13 how do you know he is not talking to Gentiles that are in Christ by believing Peter's gospel.....a kingdom Gentile if you will.....not in the body of Christ by Paul's gospel.
    First of all, there's no difference between a Gentile that came to believe through Paul vs Peter.

    Secondly, if there were a distinction between different gentiles, and he meant to speak to those who weren't part of his ministry, then he would have qualified his statements accordingly.

    In Romans 11:17 how do you know that you is not talking about a kingdom Jew or a kingdom Gentile

    In John 15 you are right the branches are Israel but how do you know the shoots are not kingdom Jews or Gentiles

    What makes you certain that they are Gentiles in the body of Christ saved by Paul's gospel
    First off, concerning the identity of the shoots, just read the passage. He is explicitly speaking to the Gentiles vs Jews here. v17: " If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot"

    Gentiles = you = wild olive shoot.

    In general, you confuse yourself by trying to add to the scriptures things that are not there, by creating divisions that don't exist. There are no such divisions in Christ:


    Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    1 Cor 1:10-17 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,[a] in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas[b]”; still another, “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

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    Gentiles

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post

    In Romans 11:17 how do you know that you is not talking about a kingdom Jew or a kingdom Gentile
    The very title of the book tells you that it is written to ROMANS (Gentiles).
    Hebrews, on the other hand, is written to JEWS (Hebrews).

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    The very title of the book tells you that it is written to ROMANS (Gentiles).
    Hebrews, on the other hand, is written to JEWS (Hebrews).
    Hello

    Beameup very creative Scotty!!!!! I like it

    Romans was written to all that be in Rome Romans 1:7. That verse does not say Romans it says TO ALL

    You are right on Hebrews but not because of the title given to this epistle but rather, because verse 1 and 2 identifies the audience as Jews....the fathers of Israel in verse 1 and us in verse 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello

    Beameup very creative Scotty!!!!! I like it

    Romans was written to all that be in Rome Romans 1:7. That verse does not say Romans it says TO ALL

    You are right on Hebrews but not because of the title given to this epistle but rather, because verse 1 and 2 identifies the audience as Jews....the fathers of Israel in verse 1 and us in verse 2.
    The Holy Spirit leaves all sorts of "clues" in the Scriptures. Many simply "gloss-over" these things.
    I believe that the end of Acts sheds some light, as the Jewish leadership visited Paul while he was under house arrest in Rome. Paul "gave-up" on Israel (Jewish leadership) once-and-for-all because of their unbelief. In Romans 9-11 Paul lays-out the plan and purpose of Israel.

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