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Thread: Salvation is a matter of knowing & being known by God, not believing in God

  1. #31
    Over 1000 post club csuguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Who would anyone take such a position? I don't.

    I am a human and my son has that same nature.

    God is God and so is His ONLY begotten Son. And no, begotten does NOT means created.
    Same nature? Sure. Jesus is the image of God. But a son is never the father - who, in this case, is God. Nor is an image the same as the one it depicts.

    And, yes, begotten does mean created.

    At any rate, I tire of this conversation. You have no intentions of responding to the arguments or scriptures I post. Just a bunch of posturing, platitudes, and otherwise running away from everything that so clearly contradicts you. Come back when you can discuss the scriptures honestly.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Same nature? Sure. Jesus is the image of God. But a son is never the father - who, in this case, is God. Nor is an image the same as the one it depicts.
    Just keep beating your straw-man. Must feel good.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    And, yes, begotten does mean created.
    No, it doesn't. You constant claims no matter how often repeated, mean nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    At any rate, I tire of this conversation. You have no intentions of responding to the arguments or scriptures I post. Just a bunch of posturing, platitudes, and otherwise running away from everything that so clearly contradicts you. Come back when you can discuss the scriptures honestly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  3. #33
    Over 1000 post club csuguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Just keep beating your straw-man. Must feel good.
    Not a straw man - you have explicitly argued that the Son of God is God himself. But the son is never the father.

    No, it doesn't. You constant claims no matter how often repeated, mean nothing.
    The same can be said of your denial. The term begotten was used because of its natural meaning - not for whatever meaning you want to try to infuse it with.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  4. #34
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Not a straw man - you have explicitly argued that the Son of God is God himself. But the son is never the father.
    Indeed it IS a straw-man, because NOBODY has ever made the claim that the SON IS THE FATHER.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    The same can be said of your denial. The term begotten was used because of its natural meaning - not for whatever meaning you want to try to infuse it with.
    The BIBLE makes the statement that each member of the trinity is GOD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  5. #35
    Over 1000 post club csuguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Indeed it IS a straw-man, because NOBODY has ever made the claim that the SON IS THE FATHER.
    First off, he is called the Son of God, not Son of the Father. So you are the one putting forth a strawman here. "Son of God" means that "God" is the father of the "Son". Not difficult.

    Secondly, within the scriptures the Father = God anyways. The scriptures don't divide God up into different personas.


    Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?

    The BIBLE makes the statement that each member of the trinity is GOD.
    The Bible doesn't know of the Trinity to begin with - it's a non-sense doctrine that took hundreds of years to form. No the scriptures are quite clear that Jesus is the Son of God and that he is the servant of God.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    First off, he is called the Son of God, not Son of the Father.
    That might be the dumbest thing that you've ever posted.

    Matt 7:21 (AKJV/PCE)
    (7:21) ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Jesus says that God is HIS FATHER.

    I'm almost stunned that you do not even understand the relationship between the FATHER and the SON.

    But I'm not stunned, because you have proven your confusion again and again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

    k0de (April 17th, 2019)

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    That might be the dumbest thing that you've ever posted.

    Matt 7:21 (AKJV/PCE)
    (7:21) ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Jesus says that God is HIS FATHER.

    I'm almost stunned that you do not even understand the relationship between the FATHER and the SON.

    But I'm not stunned, because you have proven your confusion again and again.
    Oh I understand that relationship very well - it's just contradictory to you and your Trinity doctrine.

    You acknowledge that the Father = God. This is somewhat unexpected - but good. I agree.

    Now let us return to the other obvious truth: a son is never the father.

    If God is the Father of the Son, then the Son is not God.

    Thus, the Trinity is false. Easy.
    Last edited by csuguy; April 7th, 2019 at 02:22 AM.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Oh I understand that relationship very well - it's just contradictory to you and your Trinity doctrine.
    No, it is not. Your constant use of your vain opinions does not prove anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    You acknowledge that the Father = God. This is somewhat unexpected - but good. I agree.
    The Bible never says that "the Father = God". The Bible says that the Father is God and that the Son is God and that the Holy Spirit is God.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Now let us return to the other obvious truth: a son is never the father.
    Neither I nor the doctrine of the trinity say that.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    If God is the Father of the Son, then the Son is not God.
    Babbling nonsense.

    The Bible never says that "God is the Father of the Son".

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Thus, the Trinity is false. Easy.
    Thus, you've only proven that you to not understand what the Bible says.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  10. #39
    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)
    16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    No, it is not. Your constant use of your vain opinions does not prove anything.
    Yes it does. Hence you are now backpedaling in this post.

    The Bible never says that "the Father = God". The Bible says that the Father is God and that the Son is God and that the Holy Spirit is God.
    Ah, lovely backpedaling. But once more you are wrong - and I have already provided such scripture.


    Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”[a]? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”[b]?

    Here GOD says he is the Father of the SON. The scriptures declare the same wherever they say Jesus is the Son of God. For if Jesus is the Son of God, then God is the Father of Jesus. Simple stuff.

    Neither I nor the doctrine of the trinity say that.
    You already conceded this obvious truth earlier. You can try to backpedal and deny it now, but it won't change the obvious truth of the statement that the son is never the father. Nor again is an image that which it depicts.

    Babbling nonsense.

    The Bible never says that "God is the Father of the Son".
    It does, for it says that Jesus is the "Son of God," which means the same thing.
    Last edited by csuguy; April 7th, 2019 at 11:02 AM.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)
    16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
    John 3:16-21 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

    True belief implies acting accordingly. Belief devoid of action is dead and cannot save you (James 2).
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  13. #42
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Yes it does. Hence you are now backpedaling in this post.
    Lying will get you nowhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Ah, lovely backpedaling. But once more you are wrong - and I have already provided such scripture.

    Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”[a]? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”[b]?

    Here GOD says he is the Father of the SON. The scriptures declare the same wherever they say Jesus is the Son of God. For if Jesus is the Son of God, then God is the Father of Jesus. Simple stuff.
    How did God the Father get to be a father? Both the Father and the Son are God.... just like the Bible says.

    You lack understanding of analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    You already conceded this obvious truth earlier. You can try to backpedal and deny it now, but it won't change the obvious truth of the statement that the son is never the father.
    Blah blah blah.... Once again, I have never said that the son is the father. Your idiotic repetition of something that I did not say is childish.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    It does, for it says that Jesus is the "Son of God," which means the same thing.
    When did God become the father of a son?

    The Bible has SO many examples of Christ's deity, but unbelievers will not believe.

    Joh 2:19 KJV Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
    Act 2:32 KJV This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    You must believe that Jesus was a liar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  14. #43
    Over 1000 post club csuguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Lying will get you nowhere.
    Right back at you.

    How did God the Father get to be a father? Both the Father and the Son are God.... just like the Bible says.

    You lack understanding of analogy.
    Read the verse I provided to you and learn.

    Blah blah blah.... Once again, I have never said that the son is the father. Your idiotic repetition of something that I did not say is childish.
    I may have misread you. It makes no difference, for the truth of the statement holds: a son is never the father, nor is the father ever the son. One begets, the other begotten.


    When did God become the father of a son?
    Again, read the verse I provided to you

    The Bible has SO many examples of Christ's deity, but unbelievers will not believe.

    Joh 2:19 KJV Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
    Act 2:32 KJV This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    You must believe that Jesus was a liar.
    You ignore the plethora of scripture that so clearly contradicts you. With regards Jesus being raised up, it is both true that Jesus raised himself up and that God raised him up - and there is no need to think that Jesus is God for both statements to be true. For Jesus has no power/authority in of himself - but God gives him his power and authority.

    John 10:17-18 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.

    So Jesus took up his life again, via the power and authority bestowed upon him by God. Or do you credit Moses and the prophets alone for the miracles they performed?
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

  15. #44
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Right back at you.
    I have not lied.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Read the verse I provided to you and learn.


    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    I may have misread you. It makes no difference, for the truth of the statement holds: a son is never the father, nor is the father ever the son. One begets, the other begotten.
    Once again... beating your poor straw-man to death.

    The trinity does NOT say that the Son IS the Father or that the Father is the Son.

    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    Again, read the verse I provided to you


    Quote Originally Posted by csuguy View Post
    You ignore the plethora of scripture that so clearly contradicts you. With regards Jesus being raised up, it is both true that Jesus raised himself up and that God raised him up - and there is no need to think that Jesus is God for both statements to be true. For Jesus has no power/authority in of himself - but God gives him his power and authority.
    John 10:17-18 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.

    So Jesus took up his life again, via the power and authority bestowed upon him by God. Or do you credit Moses and the prophets alone for the miracles they performed?
    Funny stuff there.

    Jesus is God...

    It's funny that you often use the "most churches teach" stuff with regard to your preferred interpretation. But you never mention that most churches teach the doctrine of the trinity.

    Bye bye heretic... back to the ignore list for you.

    P.S. Come to the truth and get saved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The trinity does NOT say that the Son IS the Father or that the Father is the Son.
    You and the Trinitiy however assert that the Son is God. But Jesus is the "Son of God." That's the same as saying God is the Father of the Son. Thus it is irrational to assert that the Son is God, who is his Father.

    Perhaps this is too complex for you to comprehend.
    If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

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