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Thread: My Religion

  1. #46
    Over 5000 post club quip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    On the first question, if A and B are equal, there is no false claim.
    No, they're equally competing...two contradictory claims vying for Truth.

    On the second question, I’m not expert on other sacred texts. But let’s just say that I wished to determine whether or not the Book of Mormon is the Word of God. Then I would begin the slow, laborious, and deliberate process of examining the claims to see if they could be true. I would have to consciously suspend preconceived judgments or opinions on it during that period of research. I never claimed such a process is an easy thing to do. Yet, words do mean things...
    In lieu of appreciable evidence, on what basis do you judge the Truth of metaphysical claims?
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

  2. #47
    Over 750 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post

    In lieu of appreciable evidence, on what basis do you judge the Truth of metaphysical claims?
    What is it you want to know?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    What is it you want to know?
    I view spirituality as a personal pursuit; all evidence pertaining to a personal God is - by definition - personal, subjective and not privy to (unbiased) objective claim.

    Our motto is a simple one, we reject what is false, embrace what is true, and question everything that is not known.
    In light of this, it seems your only recourse is your third option. You agree or disagree?
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    I view spirituality as a personal pursuit; all evidence pertaining to a personal God is - by definition - personal, subjective and not privy to (unbiased) objective claim.



    In light of this, it seems your only recourse is your third option. You agree or disagree?
    I think I agree on both counts.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    I think I agree on both counts.
    Good.
    That's why I question religion; dispense with biased dogma...seek within not with-out.
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

  6. #51
    Over 750 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Good.
    That's why I question religion; dispense with biased dogma...seek within not with-out.
    I agree with your philosophy; but I also choose to look without because I believe there is truth there. Firstly, I believe in looking at that which is made. This world that we live in. Not only can we learn much by studying science, both past and present, but we can learn truth as we examine the world ourselves.

    And just like when we look within ourselves to find out who we really are; there are things that are not pleasant to know. Sometimes the truth hurts. But truth is truth and so it must be respected. There is so much evil in the world; so many bad things which occur.....and at the same time the opposite is true.

    So, our own experiences in this world are also a truth and we can learn from them. For me, the more I look at religions (especially Christianity as that was my back ground) the more questions I get that don't have answers.

    One fail that I see is the notion that all the "evils" in this world are the responsibility of the devil. I can't understand how people can justify this position. On the one hand, they claim they believe in Almighty God, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent.....yet they let him off the hook in this matter and blame it on the devil.

    As if the devil - if it even exists - could do anything whatsoever if God were in fact present in this world. The notion of war in heaven?!!! What a joke.

    God has no equals - therefore he can have no enemies.

    If God actually had an enemy; and he is in fact all "Omni" then he could obviously willfully cause them to cease to be withing a billionth of a second and no one would even be able to question it.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

  7. #52
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    People believe God let the devil kill the world, but he helps them find their car keys when they pray?

    Pffft. I mean. Honestly. Put on a thinking cap.
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    People believe God let the devil kill the world, but he helps them find their car keys when they pray?

    Pffft. I mean. Honestly. Put on a thinking cap.
    Good point.

  9. #54
    Over 2000 post club nikolai_42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Since Rejective Knowists believe that if God exists, he must be good....they are willing to admit there are things they donít know, and that is ok.
    Sounds to me like you can only make positive claims of truth on statements about subjective assessments (e.g. "The sky looks blue to me" would be true but you couldn't know if "The sky is blue"). Which means you are left with ONLY beliefs about the things themselves (e.g. the sky in this example). Therefore real, actual objective truth about the world and everything is impossible. You can properly only hold beliefs about those things. And based on your dim view of beliefs (though you allow people to hold them in your religion), you're consigned to scientific indeterminism for eternity. So unless you set up some arbitrary standard for determining when observations become reliable enough to become established, objective fact ("truth"), you have no mechanism whereby you can proceed beyond probabilistic statements.

    The only way out of that? Divine revelation of the Truth.

    Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    John 14:5-6
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to nikolai_42 For Your Post:

    Guyver (April 3rd, 2019),Jacob (April 3rd, 2019)

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    Truth exists and Jesus said
    I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father except by Me.

  12. #56
    Over 750 post club Guyver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Truth exists and Jesus said
    I am the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father except by Me.
    Right. But, I thought Christians believe Jesus is God? So, if Jesus is God and a person believes in God but not Jesus yet prays, how are they not getting to Jesus or God?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    Sounds to me like you can only make positive claims of truth on statements about subjective assessments (e.g. "The sky looks blue to me" would be true but you couldn't know if "The sky is blue"). Which means you are left with ONLY beliefs about the things themselves (e.g. the sky in this example). Therefore real, actual objective truth about the world and everything is impossible. You can properly only hold beliefs about those things. And based on your dim view of beliefs (though you allow people to hold them in your religion), you're consigned to scientific indeterminism for eternity. So unless you set up some arbitrary standard for determining when observations become reliable enough to become established, objective fact ("truth"), you have no mechanism whereby you can proceed beyond probabilistic statements.

    The only way out of that? Divine revelation of the Truth.

    Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    John 14:5-6
    Yes....you are right on the points above. But, arenít you doing the same thing you accuse me of when you accept the Bible as divine revelation of truth?

    Which would be fine, if in fact it could be demonstrated. But I donít think it does. I could tell you why but I guess you donít want to hear it. So, Iíll just say....if the Bible is the divine revelation of truth, then it must be that consistently....right?

    Or, would you accept that the Bible is partially true, partially not true? Partially human and partially divine? If so, then you could dismiss the false parts as being the mistakes of men?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Right. But, I thought Christians believe Jesus is God? So, if Jesus is God and a person believes in God but not Jesus yet prays, how are they not getting to Jesus or God?
    That is a good question. What if the person does not know about Jesus? Does God or Jesus hear their prayer when they pray to God?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    That is a good question. What if the person does not know about Jesus? Does God or Jesus hear their prayer when they pray to God?
    Of course. How could God be God if he can’t hear the prayers of ALL people? Wouldn’t a god who only knows some things or people not be the real Omniscient God?
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
    Of course. How could God be God if he can’t hear the prayers of ALL people? Wouldn’t a god who only knows some things or people not be the real Omniscient God?
    Is our way to God through prayer?

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