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Thread: MATTHEW 24:3 THE SIGN OF THY COMING

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    Over 3000 post club Apple7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    No, that is not what the verses say because they refer specifically to Satan. In fact, the verses make it plain that Paul is comparing Satan's ministers to Satan himself:

    "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.2:13-15).

    The words "is transfomed" is in the present tense.

    The Greek verb, μετασχηματίζεται, literally means 'to change outward appearance after a change.'

    Thus...what change occurred to Satan that caused him to change his outward appearance?

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    The Greek verb, μετασχηματίζεται, literally means 'to change outward appearance after a change.'

    Thus...what change occurred to Satan that caused him to change his outward appearance?
    His appearance before others is changed because he poses as a minister of righteousness despite the fact that he is anything but. One of the meanings of the Greek word is "to disguise."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    His appearance before others is changed because he poses as a minister of righteousness despite the fact that he is anything but. One of the meanings of the Greek word is "to disguise."
    That does not answer the question of why Satan needed to change his outward appearance because of a prior event.

    What was the prior event?

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    TOL Subscriber George Affleck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hi
    What difference?

    Israel believed the gospel given them at that time.

    We Christians today believe Paul's gospel in this dispensation 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

    Both are saved by faith in Christ.
    Your original comment was:

    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hi

    The earthly kingdom is not for us the church, the body of Christ; we are seated with Christ in heavenly places.

    Israel will be delivered from the tribulation and the believing remnant will enter the kingdom and reign with Christ over the nations, and be a light to the Gentiles.
    You made a distinction between the spiritual church (those seated in heavenly places), and the remnant of Israel who will enter a physical kingdom reigning over worldly nations.

    Now you are trying to say there is no difference between Christians and Israeli remnant believers. Which is it?

    Later Edit: And by the way, it is not Paul's gospel, it is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    That does not answer the question of why Satan needed to change his outward appearance because of a prior event.

    What was the prior event?
    Again, one of the meanings of the Greek word is "to disguise." That word means " to give (someone or oneself) a different appearance in order to conceal one's identity."

    Satan is disguising himself as an angel of light so others will not know who he really is..

    "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.2:13-15).

    The word translated "is transformed" is in the "present tense" so at the time Paul wrote his second epistle to the church at Corinth Satan was busy disguising himself into an angel of light so others would not know his true identity.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    And by the way, it is not Paul's gospel, it is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
    Paul referred to it as "my gospel" (Ro.2:16, 16:25, 2 Tim.2:8).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Again, one of the meanings of the Greek word is "to disguise." That word means " to give (someone or oneself) a different appearance in order to conceal one's identity."

    Satan is disguising himself as an angel of light so others will not know who he really is..


    What he really is, is bound.

    Satan cannot make it in person, as he did before The Cross, as he is bound, and can only deal with humanity through his free-ranging demons.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.2:13-15).
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    The word translated "is transformed" is in the "present tense" so at the time Paul wrote his second epistle to the church at Corinth Satan was busy disguising himself into an angel of light so others would not know his true identity.
    You just showed that the 'servants' of Satan, do the bidding of Satan, as he cannot appear, himself, in person.

    Scripture is full of examples of Satan possessing peeps BEFORE The Cross....but NEVER after The Cross.

    Simple Biblical Truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    You just showed that the 'servants' of Satan, do the bidding of Satan, as he cannot appear, himself, in person.
    You obviously do not understand the meaning of the "present" tense.

    "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.11:13-15).

    At the time Paul wrote his second epistle to the church at Corinth Satan was busy disguising himself into an angel of light so others would not know his true identity. Paul wrote that Satan "himself" is transformed into an angel of light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    When Satan, who is presently bound today, is released from his prison, then that is THE SIGN of the end times.
    Hi
    Satan is not bound today. That happens during the 1000yr reign of Christ on earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    Your original comment was:



    You made a distinction between the spiritual church (those seated in heavenly places), and the remnant of Israel who will enter a physical kingdom reigning over worldly nations.

    Now you are trying to say there is no difference between Christians and Israeli remnant believers. Which is it?

    Later Edit: And by the way, it is not Paul's gospel, it is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
    Hello
    Israel and the body of Christ are saved by faith in Christ unto eternal life. There is no difference only in regard to salvation to eternal life.

    That is not the same thing as talking about our inheritance. Us to heaven... Israel into the kingdom on earth. God was reconciling heaven and earth.

    Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, Romans 16:25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You obviously do not understand the meaning of the "present" tense.
    The tense of the word in question is already comprehended in his binding.

    Please show us where Satan EVER makes a personal appearance AFTER The Cross, like he did BEFORE the Cross.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.11:13-15).

    At the time Paul wrote his second epistle to the church at Corinth Satan was busy disguising himself into an angel of light so others would not know his true identity. Paul wrote that Satan "himself" is transformed into an angel of light.
    As the passage states, this is no great thing, as this is what his servants (demons) are doing already.

    Satan's 'power' is his demons, as he has no power of his own today.

    Satan is bound, and has been left impotent, as per scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hi
    Satan is not bound today. That happens during the 1000yr reign of Christ on earth.
    Satan is most assuredly bound today.

    To say otherwise is to diminish what Jesus did for you at The Cross, and to elevate Satan to a level that he most assuredly does not deserve.

    We are in the 1k reign right now.

    You have mis-read Rev 20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Satan is bound, and has been left impotent, as per scripture.
    So even though he is already bound he was doing the following at the time when Paul wrote his second epistle to the church at Corinth?:

    "for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

    As I said earlier, the Greek word translated "is transformed" is in the present tense. In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

    "The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."

    So at the time when Paul wrote this epistle Satam was transformed into an angel of light. That is what is meant by being "viewed as occurring in actual time." According to you Satan was doing that when He was bound in the Abyss.

    Satan will not be bound until the following happens at the battle of Armageddon (Rev.16:13-16):

    "And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended"
    (Rev.20:1-3).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello
    Israel and the body of Christ are saved by faith in Christ unto eternal life. There is no difference only in regard to salvation to eternal life.

    That is not the same thing as talking about our inheritance. Us to heaven... Israel into the kingdom on earth. God was reconciling heaven and earth.

    Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, Romans 16:25
    Ok, thanks for the clarification.

    Now, you have stated above that there are 2 agendas regarding inheritance but not salvation. There is 1 agenda for salvation which leads to 2 different inheritances.

    Do the Jews inherit eternal life? Or do they only inherit the kingdom on earth? And are the Jews, upon being saved, a part of the body of Christ or not? Let's say Peter, for example. He was a Jew. Where is his inheritance and is/was he a part of the body of Christ?
    Or is it just the Jews that are converted when Jesus comes back that are included in the earthly inheritance?
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, Romans 16:25
    With regard to the incorrect view of some that the gospel of Paul was different than the gospel of Jesus, I can only say that I believe this to be a fabrication driven, not by scripture rightly divided but, by way of validating dispensationalist doctrine at all costs.

    The word gospel means good news. This good news can take many forms and be presented differently to different groups depending on their backgrounds and the personality of the presenter, but it is always centered on Jesus Christ. When Paul says "my gospel" he is designating his specific ministry which was to flesh out the gospel of grace alone by faith alone.

    He also specifies that it is Jesus' gospel. Rom 1:1-3KJV

    A servant of Jesus Christ would not have a different message from his Master.
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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