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Thread: MATTHEW 24:3 THE SIGN OF THY COMING

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Satan was bound at The Cross.
    Then why did Peter write this about Satan After the Cross?:

    "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" (1 Pet.5:8).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Then why did Peter write this about Satan After the Cross?:

    "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" (1 Pet.5:8).

    νηψατε γρηγορησατε ο αντιδικος υμων διαβολος ως λεων ωρυομενος περιπατει ζητων καταπιειν

    nēpsate grēgorēsate ho antidikos hymōn diabolos hōs leōn ōryomenos peripatei zētōn tina katapiein

    Be sober-minded, watch, the adversary devil of you walks about in the same manner as a roaring lion seeking whom to devour;



    This passage does not refer to ‘The Devil’ himself, for several reasons:

    • ‘Diabolos’ is anarthrous (i.e. it lacks a preceding Greek definite article). Thus, rather than referring to ‘The Devil’ it refers to ‘A devil’, a demon – of which, the NT often refers to demons as devils.

    • ‘Ho antidikos’ (the adversary) is used in only one other NT passage, Mat 5.25, and is in the context of being thrown into prison.

    • The key word ‘hōs’ literally means ‘in the same manner as’, and is used to describe demons in Revelation, ‘in the same manner as’ a lion (Rev 9.8).

    • This passage does not pertain to 'The Devil"....but 'A devil'...i.e. a demon...

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    TOL Subscriber George Affleck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post

    νηψατε γρηγορησατε ο αντιδικος υμων διαβολος ως λεων ωρυομενος περιπατει ζητων καταπιειν

    nēpsate grēgorēsate ho antidikos hymōn diabolos hōs leōn ōryomenos peripatei zētōn tina katapiein

    Be sober-minded, watch, the adversary devil of you walks about in the same manner as a roaring lion seeking whom to devour;



    This passage does not refer to ‘The Devil’ himself, for several reasons:

    • ‘Diabolos’ is anarthrous (i.e. it lacks a preceding Greek definite article). Thus, rather than referring to ‘The Devil’ it refers to ‘A devil’, a demon – of which, the NT often refers to demons as devils.

    • ‘Ho antidikos’ (the adversary) is used in only one other NT passage, Mat 5.25, and is in the context of being thrown into prison.

    • The key word ‘hōs’ literally means ‘in the same manner as’, and is used to describe demons in Revelation, ‘in the same manner as’ a lion (Rev 9.8).

    • This passage does not pertain to 'The Devil"....but 'A devil'...i.e. a demon...
    Thanks for this explanation.

    It is to be noted that, even if we take the binding as of the devil himself, the binding is said to be in one respect specifically. It is in respect to "deceiving the nations".

    Rev 20:2-3KJV

    Prior to the crucifixion, the truth was shut up within the Jewish nation. The Gospel was freed to go to all nations and tribes and peoples once the Christian church appeared.
    Religion is man's attempt to make himself acceptable to God. Christianity is God making man acceptable to Himself.

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    Over 3000 post club Apple7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    Thanks for this explanation.

    It is to be noted that, even if we take the binding as of the devil himself, the binding is said to be in one respect specifically. It is in respect to "deceiving the nations".

    Rev 20:2-3KJV

    Prior to the crucifixion, the truth was shut up within the Jewish nation. The Gospel was freed to go to all nations and tribes and peoples once the Christian church appeared.

    There are legions of passages declaring that Satan was bound at The Cross....and not all of them are in relation to the nations....

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    This passage does not refer to ‘The Devil’ himself, for several reasons:
    What about this verse?:

    "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"
    (2 Cor.11:14).

    The Greek word translated "is transformed" is in the present tense.

    And what about Paul's words here:

    "Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us"
    (1 Thess.2:18).

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Affleck View Post
    With respect...this does not answer the question.

    What is the difference?
    Hi
    What difference?

    Israel believed the gospel given them at that time.

    We Christians today believe Paul's gospel in this dispensation 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

    Both are saved by faith in Christ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So you think that the Lord Jesus' disciples asked about what would happen at the end of the world. Here is what He said in answer to that question:

    "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).

    Do you think that the Lord Jesus was referring to sitting on His throne at the end of the world?

    I think that He was speaking of sitting on His throne in the earthly kingdom where He will reign on the earth:

    "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth"
    (Jer.23:5).
    Hello

    I am not sure of what you are getting at, but the disciples phrased their question in parts, one of which was what would be the sign of his coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eleos View Post
    The KJV is fine ... but use a concordance with it so you can look at greek and hebrew word meanings.

    This is a fairly useful site to look quickly at various translations, concordances etc.

    www.biblehub.com

    God Bless.
    Hi

    Hey thanks.... Blue Letter Bible has a good concordance system and Bible searches as well. Look under tools to the left of a verse.

    I was saying in regard to translations I only use KJV ....this is because of missing verses and manuscript considerations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    You skipped completely over the most important passage in this chapter, the release of Satan, in Mat 24.15.
    Hello

    Please elaborate if you would like.

    Thanks

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    I am not sure of what you are getting at, but the disciples phrased their question in parts, one of which was what would be the sign of his coming.
    The other question they asked was in regard to the "end of the age." Not the "end of the world."

    The Lord spoke about the events which will end the age in which He was then living and then spoke of the age to come, the kingdom age:

    "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).

    Do you think that it will be the "end of the world" when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth and begins to sit upon His throne?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The other question they asked was in regard to the "end of the age." Not the "end of the world."

    The Lord spoke about the events which will end the age in which He was then living and then spoke of the age to come, the kingdom age:

    "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).

    Do you think that it will be the "end of the world" when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth and begins to sit upon His throne?
    Hi

    It will not be the same system as now.

    There will be a new heavens and earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    And what about Paul's words here:

    "Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us"
    (1 Thess.2:18).

    Adding context…

    For, brothers, you became imitators of the assemblies of God being in Judea in Christ Jesus, because you also suffered these things by your own fellow countrymen, as they did also by the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, also having driven us out, and not pleasing God, and being contrary to all men, hindering us from speaking to the nations in order that they be saved, to the filling up of their sins always. But the wrath to the end is come on them. But, brothers, we being taken away from you for an hour's time, in presence, not in heart, we were much more eager with much desire to see your face. Because of this, we desired to come to you, truly I, Paul, both once and twice; but Satan hindered us. (1 Thes 2.14 – 18)


    As we can see by adding context, this ‘hindering’ is applied to what the Jews (plural) did in obstructing the spread of the Gospel.

    Obviously, since Satan cannot possess more than one person at a time, then this can only apply to the work of his demons, and not himself, as he is bound during this time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    What about this verse?:

    "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"
    (2 Cor.11:14).

    The Greek word translated "is transformed" is in the present tense.

    The context of 2 Cor 11 informs the reader that Satan is not present himself in the world, but, instead, his presentment is in his demons as detailed in the context of 2 Cor 11.12 – 15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Hello

    Please elaborate if you would like.

    Thanks

    When Satan, who is presently bound today, is released from his prison, then that is THE SIGN of the end times.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    The context of 2 Cor 11 informs the reader that Satan is not present himself in the world, but, instead, his presentment is in his demons as detailed in the context of 2 Cor 11.12 – 15.
    No, that is not what the verses say because they refer specifically to Satan. In fact, the verses make it plain that Paul is comparing Satan's ministers to Satan himself:

    "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.2:13-15).

    The words "is transfomed" is in the present tense.

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