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Thread: The Mueller Report is in. No further indictments.

  1. #31
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Then I should expect you to be just as irate at the US government meddling in other countries affairs in the same manner....
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    Over 1000 post club exminister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    How many of those were from collusion with Russia?

    How much closer can the stink get?
    Proverbs 17:19 Whoever loves a quarrel loves sin

  3. #33
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    The Constitution itself contains only two restrictions: The pardon must be an offense against the United States — that is, a federal crime and not a state crime. Also, the president cannot use the pardon power to save himself or another official from impeachment.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ers/660381002/

    "The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment."

    Crimes against the states cannot be pardoned by the president, since the Constitution does not grant him that power.

    The only possible exception would be where the statutes were identical; that could involve double jeopardy. So yes, that loophole should be closed, even if it's an iffy situation.

    (Barbarian checks)

    Yep. That's what it is.
    Schneiderman says in the letter that, under U.S. Supreme Court precedent, a federal prosecution is no bar to a subsequent state prosecution under the double jeopardy clause, and vice versa.

    But additional protection added by the legislature to the state constitution’s double jeopardy clause—which is nearly identical to the federal clause—could stand in the way of a state prosecution after a pardon, Schneiderman wrote.

    The state double jeopardy law generally provides that jeopardy attaches (meaning subsequent prosecutions for the same acts are barred) when a defendant pleads guilty, or when a jury is sworn in a defendant’s criminal trial.

    That means the state law could be invoked if the president issues a pardon after a defendant pleads guilty to a federal crime or after the swearing in of jurors in a defendant’s federal criminal trial.

    “Simply put,” Schneiderman writes, “a defendant pardoned by the president for a serious federal crime could be freed from all accountability under federal and state criminal law, even though the president has no authority under the U.S. Constitution to pardon state crimes.”
    http://www.abajournal.com/news/artic...rump_aides_cha

    A crooked president might time his pardon to fit the loophole in the law. Easy to fix, I think.



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  4. #34
    Over 1000 post club exminister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Just think what we could have done with that energy over the last two years. Think how much public support could have been poured into the sweeping progressive reforms called for by the Sanders movement, for example, instead of constant demands for more sanctions and nuclear posturing against Russia. Think how much more attention could have been drawn to Trump’s actual horrific policies like his facilitation of Saudi butchery in Yemen or his regime change agendas in Iran and Venezuela, his support for ecocide and military expansionism and the barbarism of Jair Bolsonaro and Benjamin Netanyahu. Think how much more energy could have gone into beating back the Republicans in the midterms, reclaiming far more House seats and taking the Senate as well, gathering momentum for a presidential candidacy that truly threatens Trump instead of 9,000 primary candidates who will probably be selected by superdelegates after the first ballot when there’s too many of them to establish a clear majority under the new rules.

    Caitlin Johnstone
    Much less than what the Republicans wasted on Bengazhi. That was a spectacle. At least Mueller didn’t turn it into a circus.

    And this got rid of some corrupt hombres. He attracts so much corruption. You can tell a lot about someone with the company he keeps.
    Proverbs 17:19 Whoever loves a quarrel loves sin

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    How much closer can the stink get?
    I don't know what that means.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    Much less than what the Republicans wasted on Bengazhi. That was a spectacle. At least Mueller didn’t turn it into a circus.
    About Benghazi, that woman left them for dead....if that's a waste, your as dumb as the rest of em...

    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    And this got rid of some corrupt hombres. He attracts so much corruption. You can tell a lot about someone with the company he keeps.
    ALL POLITICIANS are CROOKS, get used to it.....
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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    Rating the Benghazi Show
    By Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.
    October 23, 2015

    MoFo gives the hearings an overall F- and Hillary an A+. And they rightly can’t stand Hillary. (They also give the odd Gowdy an A.)

    Part of the GOP’s problem, as MoFo notes, is that no American knows about or cares about the whole episode. 4 Americans were killed! Even worse, 1 belonged to an official victim group!

    It’s actually the perfect Republican issue: pro-war, partisan, but never threatening the regime with a truth that might undeermine its hold on people’s minds.

    One truth the GOP won’t tell: the ambassador to Hillary-throttled Libya and his cohorts were government gun runners who tried to use their official positions for cover, in effect telling Islamist terrorists, hey, you can’t kill us! We’re diplomatically immune! The US operatives were buying weapons that had belonged to the late anti-Islamicist Gaddafi regime and shipping them, via Islamcist Turkey, to US-sponsored Islamicist terrorists in Syria, to destroy the anti-Islamicist Assad regime. A very dark business in imperial trouble-making that the GOP loves as much as the Dems.
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

  9. #38
    TOL Legend drbrumley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Notice he didn't touch this with a ten foot pole...
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

  10. #39
    Over 1000 post club exminister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    About Benghazi, that woman left them for dead....if that's a waste, your as dumb as the rest of em...



    ALL POLITICIANS are CROOKS, get used to it.....

    How dumb were the Republicans that they could not convict her?
    I think you have knowledge that Trey Gowdy didn't have. And yet you let her get away with it.
    Proverbs 17:19 Whoever loves a quarrel loves sin

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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    How dumb were the Republicans that they could not convict her?
    Politics TRUMPS (Pun intended) the right thing to do.
    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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  13. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    How dumb were the Republicans that they could not convict her?
    I think you have knowledge that Trey Gowdy didn't have. And yet you let her get away with it.
    Gowdy is an extremely competent prosecutor, with an impressive record of convictions. But he's not a magician. He did his level best with the evidence he had. It just wasn't enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Notice he didn't touch this with a ten foot pole...
    The folly of trying for regime change in countries with no tradition of rule by law, should be obvious. Libya was a disaster, not because we helped them overthrow a psychopathic rapist, but because we supposed that would be followed by some kind of stable democracy.

    Perhaps the lesson will keep us from doing something stupid with Venezuela or Iran. Actually, Iran is where it is, because decades ago, we interfered in a legitimately-elected government, and overthrew it.
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  17. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    LOL!!!!! The state of New York answers to the government in Washington. Or didn't you know? If Washington wants to stick its nose in New Yorks business, they can.
    Apparently not:
    The so-called "separate sovereigns exception" provides that a person can be tried twice for the same offense if the prosecutions occur in state and federal courts. The rationale is that the states and the federal government are different sovereigns.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/06/polit...wer/index.html

    However, the Supreme Court recently agreed to re-hear the arguments, which could lead to an overturning of a previous SCOTUS decision. Not likely, but possible. That would explain why Mueller is not doing any more indictments for the time being. If there are no federal indictments, then the state courts would be free to indict any criminals who were not indicted by Mueller, even if the SCOTUS overturns precedent.

    And Trump would be unable to issue pardons.

    Maybe Mueller already figured things out before we did.
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    Michael Tracey: Trump-Russia Hoax as Big a Fraud as Iraqi WMD
    Dale Steinreich

    …and interestingly, it was promoted by many, if not most, of the same usual suspects: David Frum, Bill Kristol, etc., who have all gone completely unscathed since Iraq and will almost certainly continue as such.

    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

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    The Mueller Report is in. No further indictments.

    Given that his President fired Jeff Sessions the day after the 2018 Interims in favour of an Attorney General who had not "recused" himself, what role is Barr serving for the White House that his predecessor was unable to perform!

    It would appear that the designated role of this new Attorney General is to characterize the meaning of the Mueller Report without actually releasing the Report itself - preventing the rest of us from coming to our own conclusions based on the facts!

    Lindsay Graham has stated publically that he has no interest in inviting Mueller to testify before his Senate Committee and today Mitch McConnell refused to allow the Senate to vote on a motion supporting the release of the Report - despite a unanimous 435-0 bipartisan vote in the House!

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