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Thread: It is critically important to understand Romans 6

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    It is critically important to understand Romans 6

    All Scripture quotations are from the NKJV. The commentaries are
    from The Complete Biblical Library (NT), 1986, Springfield, Missouri.


    6:14 ● “For sin shall not have dominion over you,
    for you are not under law but under grace.”

    “When man fell, he came under the mastery of sin.
    Christ came to deliver us from sin. He provided grace to conquer sin.
    The work has been done for us, but we must yield ourselves
    to the divine will for it to be operative within us.
    When the believer obeys the instructions of this passage (6:14)
    relative to adjustment to the evil nature and the divine nature,
    this verse promises, ‘Sin need never again be your master,
    for now you are no longer tied to the law where sin enslaves you,
    but you are free under God’s favor and mercy’ (Living Bible).”

    6:15 ● “What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law
    but under grace? Certainly not!”

    “It is totally false to believe that it is of no consequence
    whether or not Christians sin. Such doctrine is promoted by
    ‘no-Law’ people otherwise known as antinomians. True, the Law
    was uncompromising, but grace while forgiving is never lenient.
    To be free form the Law does not mean one can sin with freedom
    from punishment. Being under grace must not be taken as liberty
    or license to sin. The grace of God is not in the heart of a man
    who looks upon grace as a loophole to sin. Those who continue
    to sin are the slaves of sin (John 8:34).”

    6:16 ● “Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves
    to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin
    leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?”

    “By nature we were born slaves – slaves to sin and Satan.
    The believer is a former slave of Satan, delivered by the power of God.
    Being identified with Christ he becomes bound to Him as his new Master.
    Obedience is a key word along with yielding. We choose to whom we
    yield and whom we obey. The choice is between ‘sin unto death’
    or ‘obedience unto righteousness’.” Note that this is addressed to believers.
    They are warned that sin leads to death. This is not speaking of physical
    death, for all will die physically, saints included. It is eternal death of
    ‘everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord’ (2 Thes.1:9).”

    6:18 ● “And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.”
    “Believers are set free from the bondage of sin and Satan.
    But they are freed to a new slavery, to become slaves of righteousness.
    … Freed from the slavery of sin, the believer has a glorious freedom
    enjoying a higher slavery, a slave to God … The Christian must be a slave
    to Christ with disregard for his personal desires, but he is guaranteed eternal joy.”

    6:19-20 ● “… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
    For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.”

    “These verses show clearly that the believer still is faced with
    the decision of whether to yield his members to sin and uncleanness
    or to yield his members to righteousness unto holiness. Paul had already
    warned them of the possibility of losing their lives in Christ,
    if they chose to yield themselves to sin (verse 16).”

    6:21 ● “What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed?
    For the end of those things is death.”

    “Believers are ashamed of their past sins; this leads to a horror of any
    new occurrence of sin. ‘Death’, which is the end of such sins, includes the
    second death (Revelation 20:14).”

    6:22 ● “But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God,
    you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.”

    “… slaves to God have ‘fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.’
    … the ‘double’ aspect of holiness. We are sanctified by Christ (1 Cor 1:30).
    Then we are commanded to ‘cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh
    and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God’ (2 Cor 7:1).”

    6:23 ● “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life
    in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

    “Sin pays wages and the pay is death. In contrast to the horrible wages of sin,
    there is the gift of ‘eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord’.”
    The latter is given to true believers who endure until death in faith, trust, obedience!
    Last edited by ZacharyB; March 22nd, 2019 at 09:23 AM.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    One of the important teachings found in the sixth chapter of Romans is the following one:

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord"
    (Ro.6:23).

    The Christian has already received this gift of eternal life in the Son:

    "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son"
    (1 Jn.5:11).

    The Christian will always have this "gift" of eternal life in the Lord Jesus because the Lord will not take back that gift once He gives it:

    "God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable" (Ro.11:29).

    According to your false teaching the Lord will give people eternal life in the Lord Jesus and then take it back from them. Paul says that the Lord will not do that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" [/I](1 Jn.5:11).
    Aaaaah, thou likest parts of 1 John!
    How do you like this one?

    “Little children, let no one deceive you.
    He who practices righteousness is righteous,
    just as He is righteous … In this the children of God
    and the children of the devil are manifest:
    Whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God,
    NOR is he who does NOT love his brothers/sisters.”
    (1 John 3:7-10)
    Last edited by ZacharyB; March 21st, 2019 at 05:36 PM.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Aaaaah, thou likest parts of 1 John!
    How do you like this one?

    “Little children, let no one deceive you.
    He who practices righteousness is righteous,
    just as He is righteous … In this the children of God
    and the children of the devil are manifest:
    Whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God,
    NOR is he who does NOT love his brothers/sisters.”
    (1 John 3:7-10)
    So you think that passage proves that once the LORD gives a gift He will later take it back?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So you think that passage proves that once the LORD gives a gift He will later take it back?
    Oh yes, there are dozens which promise exactly that.

    Ephesians 2:8-9, for example, refers to the moment
    a believer receives the Holy Spirit inside him/her.
    At that moment, the believer receives a number of
    blessings, such as: redemption, justification, adoption.

    Unfortunately, the rest of the NT promises that these gifts
    must be maintained through our co-operation, obedience,
    practicing righteousness, loving Jesus, etc.

    Dost thou REALLY believe you will be allowed into heaven ...
    IF you have NOT forgiven everyone whom you think has wronged you?
    The gospel says if you don't forgive, the Father will NOT forgive you!

    Meanwhile, how are you coming along with reconciling
    ALL of the verses on both sides of OSAS?
    It can be done, you know.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Oh yes, there are dozens which promise exactly that.

    Ephesians 2:8-9, for example, refers to the moment
    a believer receives the Holy Spirit inside him/her.
    At that moment, the believer receives a number of
    blessings, such as: redemption, justification, adoption.

    Unfortunately, the rest of the NT promises that these gifts
    must be maintained through our co-operation, obedience,
    practicing righteousness, loving Jesus, etc.

    Dost thou REALLY believe you will be allowed into heaven ...
    IF you have NOT forgiven everyone whom you think has wronged you?
    The gospel says if you don't forgive, the Father will NOT forgive you!

    Meanwhile, how are you coming along with reconciling
    ALL of the verses on both sides of OSAS?
    It can be done, you know.
    You just don't get it! I tell you when you are saved, it means God knows you are good and will not be bad. Do you think you or anyone can pull the wool over God's eyes?
    So, what?

    believe it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    Do you think you or anyone can pull the wool over God's eyes?
    No, but Satan has succeeded in pulling the wool over your eyes!
    Through your church, no doubt.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    No, but Satan has succeeded in pulling the wool over your eyes!
    Through your church, no doubt.
    You are wrong! Satan has lost his goose with me because I am bona fide in Christ! What about you?
    So, what?

    believe it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Oh yes, there are dozens which promise exactly that.
    Where did you find a verse which says that the Lord Jesus will take back the gift of eternal life? Here is what Paul said about that:

    "God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable" (Ro.11:29).

    I think I will believe Paul and not you. And all you do to answer the following verse is to insist that the Greek word translated "believes" must include obedience:

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"
    (Jn.3:16).

    When asked to quote a recognized Greek expert who agrees with the meaning you place on the Greek word translated "believes" you offered nothing. You think that you can just change the meanings of words so that they will match your ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Where did you find a verse which says that the Lord Jesus will take back the gift of eternal life? Here is what Paul said about that:

    "God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable" (Ro.11:29).

    I think I will believe Paul and not you. And all you do to answer the following verse is to insist that the Greek word translated "believes" must include obedience:

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life"
    (Jn.3:16).
    I think he cares more to argue than learn anything. How dare anyone say to someone they do not know their life is under Satan. This is a bad sign.
    So, what?

    believe it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    I am bona fide in Christ! What about you?
    Me? Moi? ...
    I am able to read the NT and understand what it is saying.
    When I read the warnings, I actually understand that they are warnings!
    Incredible!

    You NEED to RECONCILE the so-called OSAS NT verses
    with
    the NT verses which stand against the OSAS verses!


    Is this an unreasonable request?

    If you do this, you will find the Truth.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    When asked to quote a recognized Greek expert who agrees with the meaning you place on the Greek word translated "believes" you offered nothing. You think that you can just change the meanings of words so that they will match your ideas.
    I presented Dr. Lester Sumrall to you.
    Also, it is well known that the same Greek word
    in the secular world often means something
    somewhat different in the Christian world of the NT.

    Many in these last days are waking up to the fact that
    "believe" in the NT means far more than intellectual belief,
    even deep heart belief. They are saying that deep heart belief
    will result in ENDURING BELIEF/FAITH and ENDURING OBEDIENCE!

    I.E., Jerry ... true saving belief means
    something different than secular belief!
    Sounds reasonable to me.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Oh yes, there are dozens which promise exactly that.

    Ephesians 2:8-9, for example, refers to the moment
    a believer receives the Holy Spirit inside him/her.
    At that moment, the believer receives a number of
    blessings, such as: redemption, justification, adoption.

    Unfortunately, the rest of the NT promises that these gifts
    must be maintained through our co-operation, obedience,
    practicing righteousness, loving Jesus, etc.

    Dost thou REALLY believe you will be allowed into heaven ...
    IF you have NOT forgiven everyone whom you think has wronged you?
    The gospel says if you don't forgive, the Father will NOT forgive you!

    Meanwhile, how are you coming along with reconciling
    ALL of the verses on both sides of OSAS?
    It can be done, you know.
    Jesus, in Mark, says this:

    “And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses.” - Mark 11:25-26 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...6&version=NKJV

    However, Paul says this in Ephesians:

    And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. - Ephesians 4:32 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    Jesus: Forgive, and you will be forgiven; do not forgive, and you will not be forgiven.

    Paul: forgive, for you have already been forgiven

    How do you, ZacharyB, reconcile the difference between what Jesus said and what Paul said?

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    Greetings, JR ...
    Jesus forgives believers at the moment they receive the Holy Spirit.
    This, of course, is when the Father gives His free gift of grace (Eph 2).
    When they receive, they are given everything you can think of.
    But, then the process of salvation begins!
    Believers are responsible for their end of the bargain (covenant).
    A BIG part of this is forgiving everyone who has wronged us.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Greetings, JR ...
    First of all, if you do not use the "reply with quote" feature, I might miss your response.

    Jesus forgives believers at the moment they receive the Holy Spirit.
    This, of course, is when the Father gives His free gift of grace (Eph 2).
    When they receive, they are given everything you can think of.
    But, then the process of salvation begins!
    Believers are responsible for their end of the bargain (covenant).
    A BIG part of this is forgiving everyone who has wronged us.
    That doesn't answer my question though.

    I asked you how you reconcile the difference between what Jesus said and what Paul said.

    Jesus said that forgiving others is required to be forgiven (future tense, conditional) of one's own trespasses.

    Paul, on the other hand, said that we should forgive as a result of being forgiven (past tense, already happened).

    Why is what Paul taught different than what Jesus taught?

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