User Tag List

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 106

Thread: NT verses to churches threaten loss of salvation

  1. #91
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    15,867
    Thanks
    14,424
    Thanked 21,852 Times in 12,368 Posts

    Blog Entries
    7
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147713

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    I've been reading this thread and I find that the OSAS people have a curious idea about God, humanity, and heaven. They believe that once someone says the magic words I believe, that even if they change their mind about all of that later, God is going to drag them into heaven against their own choice. It's like once someone has a relationship with God that from then on He denies them the option of choosing to reject Him. The book of Hebrews denies this very explicitly.
    Straw-man... all the way.

    Firstly, the book to the HEBREWS is not where we, the body of Christ, go to find doctrines to be followed today.
    Secondly, it's not about "saying a magic word (or two)", it's about faith. A real change happens when someone puts the faith in Christ and is saved.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    That little two letter word, if, at the beginning of verse 6 says it is possible. If is a conditional statement, and conditional statements mean there are 2 or more options available to choose from. The two options available in the context of this passage of scripture are: 1. Remain in a saving relationship with God. 2. Choose to walk away from the relationship, i.e. divorce themselves from God.
    The church which is His body is NOT the same group as the one that "tasted of the heavenly gift".... that happened to those of Christ's earthly people at Pentecost (that lawfully required feast day for Israel). Peter makes it clear that those events were prophetic and based on the prophets of Israel.

    "Being made partakers of the Holy Ghost" is that "taste" that THEY were given at Pentecost in fulfillment of prophecy.

    This is the sort of problem that occurs when the Bible is thrown into a blender and divisions are not respected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  2. #92
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,137
    Thanks
    58
    Thanked 624 Times in 420 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    164419
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Straw-man... all the way.

    Firstly, the book to the HEBREWS is not where we, the body of Christ, go to find doctrines to be followed today.
    Secondly, it's not about "saying a magic word (or two)", it's about faith. A real change happens when someone puts the faith in Christ and is saved.


    The church which is His body is NOT the same group as the one that "tasted of the heavenly gift".... that happened to those of Christ's earthly people at Pentecost (that lawfully required feast day for Israel). Peter makes it clear that those events were prophetic and based on the prophets of Israel.

    "Being made partakers of the Holy Ghost" is that "taste" that THEY were given at Pentecost in fulfillment of prophecy.

    This is the sort of problem that occurs when the Bible is thrown into a blender and divisions are not respected.
    Oh, so you don't even believe the entire NT. Funny, Paul said all scripture is given inspiration and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, and instruction in righteousness. I guess your Bible is a whole lot smaller than mine. I'll take Paul's instruction and stick with all of the books of the Bible. Also, Paul, time after time, quoted the OT in his instructions and admonishment to the Christian community of his day. So, Paul obviously didn't agree with you. In fact, Paul, and the rest of the apostles, had only the OT available to use for scripture. Of course, if you don't believe Paul's words and ideas from the OT are applicable to Christians, well, I guess Paul's writings were all in vain for no Christians should have ever listened to him or believed him.

  3. #93
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    15,867
    Thanks
    14,424
    Thanked 21,852 Times in 12,368 Posts

    Blog Entries
    7
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147713

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Oh, so you don't even believe the entire NT.
    I believe 100% of the Bible.

    Are you completely unaware the the majority of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John cannot even be considered NT?

    Heb 9:16-17 KJV For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Funny, Paul said all scripture is given inspiration and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, and instruction in righteousness.
    Do you go to Jerusalem three times a year as the Bible commands?

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    I guess your Bible is a whole lot smaller than mine.
    Such a common FALSE accusation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    I'll take Paul's instruction and stick with all of the books of the Bible.
    The usual vacuous claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Also, Paul, time after time, quoted the OT in his instructions and admonishment to the Christian community of his day.
    Indeed he did and sometimes Paul's context was different too.


    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    So, Paul obviously didn't agree with you.
    More false accusations.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    In fact, Paul, and the rest of the apostles, had only the OT available to use for scripture.
    No doubt... and that is why Paul had to write some NEW scripture.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    Of course, if you don't believe Paul's words and ideas from the OT are applicable to Christians, well, I guess Paul's writings were all in vain for no Christians should have ever listened to him or believed him.


    If you would like to stop ranting, we can have a conversation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  4. #94
    Over 500 post club
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    738
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    25972
    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Your problem is you lump the word of God together when it's not all written to us and pull verses out of their context to pervert the truth. The Bible says a lot of different things. If this were my site, your perverted gospel would be removed.
    Thanks for your response.
    Why don't you choose one of the verses in the OP,
    and show us why it does not threaten loss of salvation?
    That should be easy, if you are correct.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

  5. #95
    Over 500 post club
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    738
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    25972
    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    That little two letter word "IF"
    Thou art very spiritually wise indeed!
    There are more than a handful of "IF" conditional verses in the NT.
    And there are millions of deceived so-called "believers" in America today.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    IMO, this resolves the conflict amongst all the NT verses
    concerning eternal security, i.e. OSAS ...vs… NO OSAS:
    True saving belief = enduring faith–trust-obedience
    until death + good works + no habitual sinning

    Those who “follow” Jesus “faithfully” are the BACs who
    love Him enough to be “obedient” to His commandments!
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to ZacharyB For Your Post:

    ffreeloader (May 12th, 2019)

  7. #96
    TOL Subscriber heir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Colossians 3:3 KJV
    Posts
    9,708
    Thanks
    5,775
    Thanked 9,896 Times in 6,050 Posts

    Blog Entries
    7
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147733
    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Thanks for your response.
    Why don't you choose one of the verses in the OP,
    and show us why it does not threaten loss of salvation?
    That should be easy, if you are correct.
    Rather, I'll believe the overriding theme of eternal security in the form of sound words that I have heard of Paul (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV)in Romans through Philemon knowing Whom I have believed, and that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day. You can't lose something, you didn't (and could not Romans 4:4-5 KJV) work for to begin with that which is by grace through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.


    Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

    Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


    Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

    Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

    Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


    The gospel of YOUR salvation (and mine) is how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and was raised again the third day for our justification (Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and the formula to be saved is Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV which is Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV.

    It's not about what you do. It's about what God did 2000 years ago in the world's behalf!

    Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.



    2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    "Why don't you" get saved by trusting the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV. Your flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God no matter how much white paint you slap on it with your confidence in the flesh. Count it but dung and get saved.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

  8. #97
    TOL Subscriber heir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Colossians 3:3 KJV
    Posts
    9,708
    Thanks
    5,775
    Thanked 9,896 Times in 6,050 Posts

    Blog Entries
    7
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147733
    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    I've been reading this thread and I find that the OSAS people have a curious idea about God, humanity, and heaven. They believe that once someone says the magic words I believe, that even if they change their mind about all of that later, God is going to drag them into heaven against their own choice. It's like once someone has a relationship with God that from then on He denies them the option of choosing to reject Him. The book of Hebrews denies this very explicitly.



    That little two letter word, if, at the beginning of verse 6 says it is possible. If is a conditional statement, and conditional statements mean there are 2 or more options available to choose from. The two options available in the context of this passage of scripture are: 1. Remain in a saving relationship with God. 2. Choose to walk away from the relationship, i.e. divorce themselves from God.
    Hebrews is written to a people that are only partakers if they hold the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end

    Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

    As their salvation is relying on their faith to get them saved

    1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

    1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

    1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

    1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

    1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

    While people living today in the dispensation of the grace of God are partakers by the gospel

    Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:



    As our salvation relies solely on the Lord's faith 2000 years ago in our place!

    Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    ...
    1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

    1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

    1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


    Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

    Galatians 1:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

    To say that anyone need to do something to be saved or stay saved is a denial of the gospel of our salvation. It is in opposition to the truth of the gospel.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

  9. #98
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    14,625
    Thanks
    4,317
    Thanked 1,928 Times in 1,558 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    79 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    NT verses to churches threaten loss of salvation
    If we don't take heed of Jesus' word of faithful to Him until the end with word and deed, there is no salvation.

  10. #99
    Over 500 post club
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    738
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    25972
    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    "Why don't you" get saved by trusting the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV. Your flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God no matter how much white paint you slap on it with your confidence in the flesh. Count it but dung and get saved.
    I'm sorry I cannot help you! ... But, I tried.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

  11. #100
    Over 500 post club
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    738
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    25972
    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    If we don't take heed of Jesus' word of faithful to Him
    until the end with word and deed, there is no salvation.
    Yes, sister, but that is just one of the dire warnings!

    Many NT verses prove each one of these spiritual truths
    Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
    Believers stay righteous through their obedience
    Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives
    Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
    Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
    Believers must love, forgive, not judge or condemn
    Believers must be victorious overcomers
    And a recent addition ...
    Believers deceived by "grace only" do they fear the Lord?

    One full page of Scripture verses is available
    for almost every one of the above topics.


    However, does anyone desire to see any of them?
    No.
    Truly, the church is fast asleep ... and many are on their way to hell.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to ZacharyB For Your Post:

    meshak (May 6th, 2019)

  13. #101
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,137
    Thanks
    58
    Thanked 624 Times in 420 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    164419
    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Hebrews is written to a people that are only partakers if they hold the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end

    Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

    As their salvation is relying on their faith to get them saved

    1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

    1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

    1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

    1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

    1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

    While people living today in the dispensation of the grace of God are partakers by the gospel

    Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:



    As our salvation relies solely on the Lord's faith 2000 years ago in our place!

    Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    ...
    1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

    1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

    1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


    Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

    Galatians 1:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

    To say that anyone need to do something to be saved or stay saved is a denial of the gospel of our salvation. It is in opposition to the truth of the gospel.
    That's a lot of reading ability. You're reading your meaning into everything you quoted. When you do so you're also directly contradicting a mass of scripture and a lot of Paul's writings as well. Why all the effort to make Paul argue with himself? He doesn't. The only way to make Paul argue with himself is to read a position into his statements rather than using the entirety of his writings to understand his position.

  14. #102
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,137
    Thanks
    58
    Thanked 624 Times in 420 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    164419
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I believe 100% of the Bible.

    Are you completely unaware the the majority of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John cannot even be considered NT?

    Heb 9:16-17 KJV For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


    Do you go to Jerusalem three times a year as the Bible commands?


    Such a common FALSE accusation.


    The usual vacuous claim.


    Indeed he did and sometimes Paul's context was different too.



    More false accusations.


    No doubt... and that is why Paul had to write some NEW scripture.




    If you would like to stop ranting, we can have a conversation.
    LOL. Come on, Right Divider, who was it that started all the ranting with the straw man accusation? As I remember it was you. What I said was not a straw man argument for I reject your reading of scripture. You read your position into the Bible as the Bible nowhere makes the statements you claim are the Christian positions. The OT looks forward to Christ and the NT looks back at the reality of Him. That's the only difference. In both testaments salvation is only by faith and requires the new birth. The God who says He changes not didn't change to become a respecter of persons. He is as He has always been, impartial, just, and fair. He treats us all alike, no matter when we have lived during the timeline of human history.

  15. #103
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    15,867
    Thanks
    14,424
    Thanked 21,852 Times in 12,368 Posts

    Blog Entries
    7
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147713

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by ffreeloader View Post
    LOL. Come on, Right Divider, who was it that started all the ranting with the straw man accusation? As I remember it was you. What I said was not a straw man argument for I reject your reading of scripture. You read your position into the Bible as the Bible nowhere makes the statements you claim are the Christian positions. The OT looks forward to Christ and the NT looks back at the reality of Him. That's the only difference. In both testaments salvation is only by faith and requires the new birth. The God who says He changes not didn't change to become a respecter of persons. He is as He has always been, impartial, just, and fair. He treats us all alike, no matter when we have lived during the timeline of human history.
    So you do not understand that the majority of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John cannot in any way be considered "new testament"? Ok, stay confused. You seem to like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  16. #104
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    52
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The verse does not say that. I answered one of the verses which you think denies OSAS so now it is your turn to answer the following words of the Lord Jesus which supports OSAS:

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).
    Even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19)

    "Belief" does not mean what you think it means. To a Christian, faith without works is dead.(James 2:17)

    The belief spoken of in John 3:16 is part of a LIVING faith. Yes, those with that kind of belief shall not perish provided they endure to the end(Matt. 24:13). One must be in a state of belief at the point of death. They must have a living faith. That's what John 3:16 is saying.
    Last edited by Fisherofmen; May 28th, 2019 at 03:22 AM.

  17. #105
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    52
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by heir View Post
    Rather, I'll believe the overriding theme of eternal security in the form of sound words that I have heard of Paul (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV)in Romans through Philemon knowing Whom I have believed, and that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day. You can't lose something, you didn't (and could not Romans 4:4-5 KJV) work for to begin with that which is by grace through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.


    Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

    Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


    Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

    Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

    Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


    The gospel of YOUR salvation (and mine) is how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and was raised again the third day for our justification (Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and the formula to be saved is Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV which is Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV.

    It's not about what you do. It's about what God did 2000 years ago in the world's behalf!

    Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

    Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.



    2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    "Why don't you" get saved by trusting the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV. Your flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God no matter how much white paint you slap on it with your confidence in the flesh. Count it but dung and get saved.
    Being saved by grace does not prove OSAS. Without God's grace, men could not be saved. There is no work that can merit that initial grace from God. Men can reject God's grace, however. There are warnings throughout all of Scripture regarding this. Men can also fall away from the faith...

    [4]For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] Have moreover tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[6] And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. (Heb 6:4-6)

    Note that this is not an Angel or any other creature from without, that causes man to fall away. He falls away by his own free choice. God never takes away a person's free will at any time. Also, women should not be attempting to teach others. This is stated clearly in Scripture, yet so many women disobey it...

    [11] Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection. [12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence. [13] For Adam was first formed; then Eve. [14] And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression. (1 Tim 2:11-14)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us