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Thread: NT verses to churches threaten loss of salvation

  1. #76
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Judge Jerry judges all.
    Anyone can see that you continue to run and hide from the verses which destroy your ideas.

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    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Anyone can see that you continue to run and hide from the verses which destroy your ideas.
    And anyone can see that you misuse scripture repeatedly in an attempt to support your ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    And you can keep trying to FORCE 1 Cor 12:13 into your story, but you simply do not understand where it fits.
    In the introduction found in the first epistle to the church at Corinth we read the following:

    "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

    Paul's words in this epistle were not just addressed to the church at Corinth but also to "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord."

    That can only mean that Paul addressed this epistle to every Christian, whether they be Gentile or Jew, who were alive when he wrote this epistle. This is what Paul told them later in the same epistle:

    "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"
    (1 Cor.12:13).

    Paul tells all the believers on the face of the earth at that time that we are "all" baptized into the Body of Christ. That can only mean that Paul was teaching that the Twelve were members of the Body of Christ.

    Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, also believed that the Twelve could not be excluded from the Body of Christ:

    "There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

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    "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,"I Corinthians 12:13

    I Corinthians 12: 13 is one of several New Testament scriptures which supports the doctrine that the Gospel of Christ, and his death and resurrection, sufficient for our salvation, is not just a temporary "dispensation," as claimed by dispensationalists, but is the restoration of Israel, as the fulfillment of several Old Testament prophecies.

    "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
    15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
    18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Ephesians 2; 12-18

    "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
    6. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
    7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
    8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
    9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory" II Corinthians 3: 5-9

    "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second........ In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." Hebrews 8: 7, 13

    How can the New Covenant be temporary when the New Testament says it was done away with? "Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second." Hebrews 10: 9

    "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
    18. Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
    19. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
    20. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
    21. For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
    22. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
    23. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
    24.For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?" Romans 11: 17-24

    What is the "good olive tree" in Romans 11: 24? How could it be Old Covenant Israel, when the remnant of Old Covenant Israel has been transformed by the Gospel of Christ to become the first fruits of the New Covenant?

    "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
    16. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God." Galatians 6: 15-16

    The "New creature" or "New Creation" makes it impossible for Paul to be talking only about Old Covenant physical Israel, being the Israel of God here.

    Look at Old testament prophecy on Christ:

    Amos 9: 11-12 in the Septuagint, Jeremiah 18: 1-6, and more specific prophecies include Zechariah 12: 10, and Psalm 22: 16-17. Peter in Acts 2: 25-38 quotes Psalm 16: 8-11, "I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
    9. Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
    10.For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore."

    The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ made it possible for faith in him and in his Gospel to bring redemption to all who believe. This is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. The role of Israel was to bring the knowledge of this redemption to the people of the world. It turned out that the remnant of Israel (Romans 11: 1-5) were the ones who began the process of bringing news of this great redemption to the people of the world.

    Its important to stress the quotes from John Darby, Lewis S. Sperry and other dispensationalists on Israel, by which they mean the multitude and not the remnant, being one of two different and separate peoples of God, along with the Church. By All Israel Shall be Saved In Romans 11: 26 dispensationalists mean the multitude of Old Covenant Israel, all the Bloodline.
    Last edited by northwye; March 30th, 2019 at 07:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    In the introduction found in the first epistle to the church at Corinth we read the following:

    "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

    Paul's words in this epistle were not just addressed to the church at Corinth but also to "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord."

    That can only mean that Paul addressed this epistle to every Christian, whether they be Gentile or Jew, who were alive when he wrote this epistle. This is what Paul told them later in the same epistle:

    "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"
    (1 Cor.12:13).

    Paul tells all the believers on the face of the earth at that time that we are "all" baptized into the Body of Christ. That can only mean that Paul was teaching that the Twelve were members of the Body of Christ.

    Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, also believed that the Twelve could not be excluded from the Body of Christ:
    "There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).
    Both you and Stam are wrong in this regard.

    The body of Christ was/is a NEW creation. Not every believer that ever lived is retroactively placed into the body of Christ.

    God does NOT change a persons calling. That is the truth that you cannot accept.

    Romans 11, 1 Cor 7, etc. etc. etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  8. #81
    Over 2000 post club nikolai_42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Seals have been broken all throughout history.
    Believers have been thrown in hell all throughout history.
    Yes, you better believe it.
    Just believing is plain ridiculous.
    It takes way more than just believing to make it into heaven!
    This is where you go off the rails, I think. You - along with the "hyper-grace" proponents do the same thing - isolate faith from obedience, making them separate things. In that context, you can make what you will of them (e.g. make faith a work or obedience an added necessity) rather than seeing both as two inextricably linked facets of the same thing.

    For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    Romans 10:10-11

    Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    James 2:17

    Works alone - most will agree - constitutes works salvation. Faith being alone is impotent and really means very little.

    For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Ephesians 2:8-10

    Note which is the necessary precedent in Paul's letter to Timothy :

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    2 Timothy 2:16-17

    Works - to the child of God - are fruits. They are commands, but the difference between a command to an unregenerate unbeliever and the same command to a believer is seen in the response of each one :

    Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
    They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

    Titus 1:15-16

    So when we read John say this :

    Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    I John 3:9-10

    ...we have to either believe that believers are sinless in all ways we can understand that. The only one that seems reasonable (and meshes with the rest of his epistle) is that the one who is born of God does not sin habitually and continually without repentance. Otherwise, John's assertion in I John 2:1 that we have an advocate with the Father - and his later statement about a sin that is not unto death (in a brother!) - doesn't make a lot of sense. And what of James' statement about the sick being healed and their sins being forgiven them? It is clear to me that sin (and hopefully temptation more than sin itself) is something the believer will reckon with as long as he is in "the body of this death".

    So to say that believers are cast into hell is a dangerous statement.
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    This is where you go off the rails, I think. You - along with the "hyper-grace" proponents do the same thing - isolate faith from obedience, making them separate things.
    I'm sorry that I have led you to believe what you do about me!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    IMO, this resolves the conflict amongst all the NT verses
    concerning eternal security, i.e. OSAS ...vs… NO OSAS:
    True saving belief = enduring faith–trust–obedience
    + good works + no habitual sinning

    Those who “follow” Jesus “faithfully” are the BACs who
    love Him enough to be obedient to His commandments!
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    BTW, Paul wrote only to "the faithful" in Ephesus and Colossae,
    not to the unfaithful BACs. See 1:1 and 1:2 respectively.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Contrary to your salvation by works interpretation, none of those verse speak of losing one's salvation. Furthermore for it to be said that a person "has been saved", seeing as salvation is about one's future - salvation from the wrath of God, it logically follows that such a person cannot lose salvation. For salvation to be something which can be lost one could only say that one has the possibility of being saved, but not that they have been saved.

    Jesus said upon coming to faith, it's a done deal. "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life."

    And "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith— and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph 2:8,9

    For those in the faith salvation from the future wrath of God has already been accomplished.

    Those who don't believe in eternal security but rather opt for a salvation by works soteriology don't believe the gospel and as such are themselves unsaved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcbsr View Post
    Those who don't believe in eternal security but rather opt for a salvation by works soteriology don't believe the gospel and as such are themselves unsaved.
    As always, what you write is incredibly exciting!

    But ...

    As always, you are ignoring and/or rejecting all of the many dire warnings in the NT
    about the possibility of losing salvation!

    As always, it is necessary for those who think they are saved to
    RECONCILE ALL OF THE NT VERSES.

    As always, this might just reveal to them that they are indeed NOT saved after all.

    Believers who are habitually sinning are NOT on the narrow path to heaven!

    Easy-grace, free-grace, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.
    are all from the very pits of hell.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    So as to not overwhelm you, I have cut the whole NT list
    of warnings in HALF … so, I am ONLY listing warnings
    written to the churches:

    Do not be a slave of sin
    Romans 6:16, Romans 6:23, James 1:15, 1 John 5:18

    Do not live according to the flesh (carnally-minded)
    Romans 8:6, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8

    Do not desire to be rich
    1 Timothy 6:9

    Do not become entangled in (and overcome by) sin
    2 Peter 2:20-21

    Do not be estranged from Christ
    Galatians 5:4

    Do not fall from grace
    Galatians 5:4

    Do not draw back from the faith to perdition
    Hebrews 10:39

    Do not trust in riches, but be rich in good works
    1 Timothy 6:18-19

    Do not be blocked from entering the kingdom of God
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-6

    Do not be disobedient, for it proves unbelief
    Hebrews 3:18-19, Hebrews 4:1,11

    Do not be a false teacher, an apostate, etc.
    2 Peter 2:12-22, Jude 4,12-13

    Do not have your name blotted out of the Book of Life
    Revelation 3:5, Revelation 3:5

    Do not be blocked from entering the New Jerusalem
    Revelation 3:12

    Practice righteousness
    1 John 3:7-10, 1 John 2:29, Acts 10:35, 1 Corinthians 6:9, Romans 1:18

    Obey Jesus
    Romans 6:16, Hebrews 5:9, 1 John 2:3,

    Endure in the faith (conditional “IF” passages)
    1 Corinthians 15:2, 2 Corinthians 13:5, Hebrews 2:1-3,
    Hebrews 3:14, Colossians 1:21-23, 2 Timothy 2:12

    Repent of your on-going sins
    2 Corinthians 7:8-10, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 1:9

    Attain holiness
    Romans 6:19, Hebrews 12:14

    Continue in the true doctrine
    1 Timothy 4:16

    Make your call and election sure
    2 Peter 1:10-11

    Be a victorious overcomer (Revelation 3:21 explains who the overcomers are)
    Revelation 2:11
    Have you studied all those verses and their context and the overall context of scripture ? That is your responsibility since you brought them up.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Have you studied all those verses and their context and the overall context of scripture ? That is your responsibility since you brought them up.
    Of course I have!
    There are multitudes of dire warnings to BACs in the epistles.
    There are multitudes of dire warnings to everyone in the gospels.

    Your responsibility is to RECONCILE both sets of NT verses ...
    the so-called OSAS verses ...versus... the anti-OSAS verses!

    THE RECONCILIATION is ...
    True saving belief-faith must include obedience, works, etc.
    ... all of which must endure until the end of your life!
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    zach

    Of course I have!
    Prove it
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    So as to not overwhelm you, I have cut the whole NT list
    of warnings in HALF … so, I am ONLY listing warnings
    written to the churches:

    Do not be a slave of sin
    Romans 6:16, Romans 6:23, James 1:15, 1 John 5:18

    Do not live according to the flesh (carnally-minded)
    Romans 8:6, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8

    Do not desire to be rich
    1 Timothy 6:9

    Do not become entangled in (and overcome by) sin
    2 Peter 2:20-21

    Do not be estranged from Christ
    Galatians 5:4

    Do not fall from grace
    Galatians 5:4

    Do not draw back from the faith to perdition
    Hebrews 10:39

    Do not trust in riches, but be rich in good works
    1 Timothy 6:18-19

    Do not be blocked from entering the kingdom of God
    1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-6

    Do not be disobedient, for it proves unbelief
    Hebrews 3:18-19, Hebrews 4:1,11

    Do not be a false teacher, an apostate, etc.
    2 Peter 2:12-22, Jude 4,12-13

    Do not have your name blotted out of the Book of Life
    Revelation 3:5, Revelation 3:5

    Do not be blocked from entering the New Jerusalem
    Revelation 3:12

    Practice righteousness
    1 John 3:7-10, 1 John 2:29, Acts 10:35, 1 Corinthians 6:9, Romans 1:18

    Obey Jesus
    Romans 6:16, Hebrews 5:9, 1 John 2:3,

    Endure in the faith (conditional “IF” passages)
    1 Corinthians 15:2, 2 Corinthians 13:5, Hebrews 2:1-3,...
    Salvation outside of Paul's writings is conditional upon the believer doing something to prove their faith

    James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    while Paul writes that the gospel of our salvation is how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) without our works.

    Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    ...

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    ...

    Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
    Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
    Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
    Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

    Your problem is you lump the word of God together when it's not all written to us and pull verses out of their context to pervert the truth. The Bible says a lot of different things. If this were my site, your perverted gospel would be removed.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Easy-grace, free-grace, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.
    are all from the very pits of hell.
    Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    You calling what God did by the cross "easy" is proof you are blind!

    2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
    2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    I've been reading this thread and I find that the OSAS people have a curious idea about God, humanity, and heaven. They believe that once someone says the magic words I believe, that even if they change their mind about all of that later, God is going to drag them into heaven against their own choice. It's like once someone has a relationship with God that from then on He denies them the option of choosing to reject Him. The book of Hebrews denies this very explicitly.

    Hebrews 6:4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
    That little two letter word, if, at the beginning of verse 6 says it is possible. If is a conditional statement, and conditional statements mean there are 2 or more options available to choose from. The two options available in the context of this passage of scripture are: 1. Remain in a saving relationship with God. 2. Choose to walk away from the relationship, i.e. divorce themselves from God.

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