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Thread: NT verses to churches threaten loss of salvation

  1. #31
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Of course I believe it. Just not the WAY that you believe it.
    The reason you don't believe it the way that I believe is because you haven't yet learned to distinguish between "mystery" and "prophecy." Until you are able to do that it is impossible that you can rightly divide the Bible. Here is one "mystery" truth which only applies to those in the Body of Christ:

    "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor.15:51-52).

    This "mystery" is that some of those in the Body of Christ will be changed into incorruptible bodies while they remain alive at the appearance of the Lord Jesus. And John taught that very thing on his first epistle:

    "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is"
    (1 Jn.3:2).

    Those who received John's epistles believed that they would be alive when the Lord appears--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

    They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."

    There can be no doubt that John was teaching that living saints will put on glorious bodies like the Lord Jesus' body when He appears. The revelation concerning the return of the Lord Jesus according to prophecy will be searched in vain for any teaching that living saints will put on bodies like the Lord's when He returns to the earth.

    Until you learn to tell the difference between "mystery" and "prophecy" you will only be a pretender and not a real Right Divider!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The reason you don't believe it the way that I believe is because you haven't yet learned to distinguish between "mystery" and "prophecy."
    That might just be the most ridiculous thing that I've ever seen you post. It is YOU that blurs prophecy and mystery into a complete mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Until you are able to do that it is impossible that you can rightly divide the Bible. Here is one "mystery" truth which only applies to those in the Body of Christ:

    "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor.15:51-52).

    This "mystery" is that some of those in the Body of Christ will be changed into incorruptible bodies while they remain alive at the appearance of the Lord Jesus. And John taught that very thing on his first epistle:

    "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is"
    (1 Jn.3:2).
    Just because there are similarities, that does not make the remnant of Israel and the body of Christ the same thing. You have the problem of conflating things that are not identical. Judging the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL is NOT the job of the body of Christ.... it IS the job of the TWELVE APOSTLES for the TWELVE TRIBES of ISRAEL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Those who received John's epistles believed that they would be alive when the Lord appears--"when he shall appear...we shall see him as he is."

    They were also taught that "when he shall appear... we shall be like him."
    Indeed they did believe that and they had NO IDEA what the body of Christ was.

    John was NOT writing to the body of Christ, but to HIS people Israel. John was ONE OF TWELVE apostles given responsibilities to govern the TWELVE TRIBES of ISRAEL from their TWELVE THRONES. The body of Christ is something DIFFERENT, it has no tribes or thrones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    There can be no doubt that John was teaching that living saints will put on glorious bodies like the Lord Jesus' body when He appears. The revelation concerning the return of the Lord Jesus according to prophecy will be searched in vain for any teaching that living saints will put on bodies like the Lord's when He returns to the earth.
    There can be no doubt that "there can be no doubt" is Jerry's favorite phrase in the whole wide world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Until you learn to tell the difference between "mystery" and "prophecy" you will only be a pretender and not a real Right Divider!
    Poor Jerry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  3. #33
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Just because there are similarities, that does not make the remnant of Israel and the body of Christ the same thing. You have the problem of conflating things that are not identical. Judging the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL is NOT the job of the body of Christ.... it IS the job of the TWELVE APOSTLES for the TWELVE TRIBES of ISRAEL.
    If one of the groups mentioned by Paul in the following verse is not the remnant then who are they?:

    "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
    (Eph.2:13-16).

  4. #34
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    Jerry, can't you see that you're wasting your time with the RT?
    But, it's not too late for you to tackle some of the OP verses,
    and SHOW us WHY they do NOT threaten loss of salvation.
    Which, after all, is why we're here (in this thread), right?
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    If one of the groups mentioned by Paul in the following verse is not the remnant then who are they?:

    "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
    (Eph.2:13-16).
    Since we know that God does not change a persons calling, we know that the remnant of Israel remained the remnant of Israel.

    The body of Christ is a NEW creature. The "neither Jew nor Greek" members of the body of Christ are not the remnant of Israel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  7. #36
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Jerry, can't you see that you're wasting your time with the RT?
    That's about as accurate as your theology.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    But, it's not too late for you to tackle some of the OP verses,
    and SHOW us WHY they do NOT threaten loss of salvation.
    Which, after all, is why we're here (in this thread), right?
    There is no "threat of loss of salvation" for those in the body of Christ.

    We are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption. Eph 1:13 & Eph 4:30
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

    steko (March 22nd, 2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    That's about as accurate as your theology.
    There is no "threat of loss of salvation" for those in the body of Christ.
    We are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise unto the day of redemption. Eph 1:13 & Eph 4:30
    Almighty God can break any seal which He desires to break.
    Almighty God has never said otherwise.
    Almighty God has never promised that grace will last until death.
    AAMOF, true believers can fall from grace (Galatians 5).
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

  10. #38
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Almighty God can break any seal which He desires to break.
    So what Paul wrote in the Word of God had no meaning?

    God does not lie.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Almighty God has never said otherwise.
    Almighty God has never promised that grace will last until death.
    AAMOF, true believers can fall from grace (Galatians 5).
    You read the Bible like a stubborn little child.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

    steko (March 22nd, 2019)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You read the Bible like a stubborn little child.
    How about not being so stubborn and explain to us
    WHY the OP verses do NOT disprove OSAS!
    I mean, that's what they're there for, ain't it?
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    How about not being so stubborn and explain to us
    WHY the OP verses do NOT disprove OSAS!
    I mean, that's what they're there for, ain't it?
    Your theory, like too many others, is to begin with your theory and then force the scripture to conform to your theory.

    I let the scripture speak for itself.

    Sealed means sealed. Your "caveat" to that is childish at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I let the scripture speak for itself.
    Nonsense!
    How many Scripture verses in the OP are speaking to your deaf ears.
    I didn't count them all ... how many are there?
    Deal with them ... or be forever tagged as a phony.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Nonsense!
    How many Scripture verses in the OP are speaking to your deaf ears.
    I didn't count them all ... how many are there?
    Deal with them ... or be forever tagged as a phony.
    And this from a guy that thinks that sealed does not mean sealed. You're a special guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (March 30th, 2019)

  18. #43
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The body of Christ is a NEW creature. The "neither Jew nor Greek" members of the body of Christ are not the remnant of Israel.
    Why didn't you answer the question?

    If one of the groups mentioned by Paul in the following verse is not the remnant then who are the two different groups?:

    "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
    (Eph.2:13-16).

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The "neither Jew nor Greek" members of the body of Christ are not the remnant of Israel.
    So Jews were not baptized into the Body of Christ?:

    "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; March 23rd, 2019 at 10:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Why didn't you answer the question?

    If one of the groups mentioned by Paul in the following verse is not the remnant then who are the two different groups?:

    "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
    (Eph.2:13-16).



    So Jews were not baptized into the Body of Christ?:
    "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).
    You keep quoting Paul as IF everything that he wrote was automatically RETROACTIVE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  21. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You keep quoting Paul as IF everything that he wrote was automatically RETROACTIVE.
    Why didn't you answer my remarks about what you said here?:

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The body of Christ is a NEW creature. The "neither Jew nor Greek" members of the body of Christ are not the remnant of Israel.
    If one of the groups mentioned by Paul in the following verse is not the remnant then who are the two different groups?:

    "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby"
    (Eph.2:13-16).

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The "neither Jew nor Greek" members of the body of Christ are not the remnant of Israel.
    So Jews were not baptized into the Body of Christ?:

    "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

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