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Thread: The Biblical reason why we were part of the body of Christ BEFORE He died...

  1. #16
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Ambassadors for Christ of which Law?
    Certainly NOT any law we have been delivered from.

    Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

    Rather, if you bothered to read what Paul writes here, he makes it clear what it means to be ambassadors for Christ. If you need to be schooled on this text, I'm sure you could put off your jesting long enough to learn. Dare we wait?

    2 Cor. 15:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.



    The one of the Nation you are a citizen of or one you raptured yourself from keeping as it wasnt dispensed to you?
    I'm not a citizen of any Nation. My citizenship is in heaven. Philippians 3:20

    Ah, the rapture again. That must be why you're so jealous....exactly like we're told the Jews would be. The unlearned always manage to mock what they don't understand. Romans 11:11

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    Having been created by Christ in Himself, what's next?

    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You seem to think it's a done deal....being reconciled by His death. Yet, something remains.

    2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
    Yes, something remains.

    The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Hence, when a man commits sin, he must die so he can pay for his own sin he committed, for it is only through death that he can be freed from sin.

    KJV Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

    But if man himself dies so he can pay for his own sin, he would have paid for the sin God hates, but God would have eternally lost the sinner He loves, having died separate from Him because sin separates man from God (Isa 59:2). Hence God, made a way whereby man could pay for his own sin and at the same time given another shot at life eternal.

    God did this through the One New Man that Christ created in Himself: the Head is Christ, the Body is humanity - Jews & Gentiles - with all its sins, as Scriptures declare:

    NAS 1 Peter 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

    When the Head died, the Body likewise died:

    NKJ 2 Corinthians 5: 14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again

    KJV Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    1. That death reconciled us - His Body - to God:

    NKJ Romans 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

    2. That death washed us clean from sin:

    NKJ Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood

    3. That death caused us to be forgiven from all sins:

    KJV Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

    NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

    4. That death sanctified or made us holy:

    NKJ Hebrews 10:10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    NIV Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    5. And having been sanctified, He perfected us forever:

    KJV Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    6. Through that death, He became the Mediator of the New Covenant:

    NKJ Hebrews 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

    7. And under the New Covenant, God promises to remember our sins NO MORE:

    NKJ Hebrews 10: 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," 17 then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."

    Our dying together with Christ, was even more emphasized by the apostle Paul when in writing to the Galatians he said that he was crucified with Christ:

    KJV Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    Please take note that Paul was converted a couple of years AFTER the crucifixion, yet his statement blatantly tells us of his being crucified with our Lord, an event that occurred BEFORE he became a believer.

    Therefore, our being in Christ having been created In Him through the creation of the One New Man did not result from our conversion, just like the experience of the apostle Paul who said he was crucified with Christ long before his conversion on the road to Damascus.

    Having died together with Christ, the Bible says that we were made alive together with Him.

    NAS Colossians 2:13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions

    The 4-word English phrase "made alive together with" is from a single Greek word "suzoopoieo". To be made-alive-together-with Christ simply means that when Christ resurrected, we also were resurrected together with Him, being His body when He died - the Body of the One New Man, and hence, precludes the idea of being made alive one-at-a-time, as in, as each one believes. And through that resurrection, God caused us to be born again:

    NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

    Created in Christ through the One New Man that Christ created in Himself BEFORE He died, crucified with Christ and made alive TOGETHER WITH Him Who is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, we all are physically born into this world ALREADY in Christ, already part of His Body - the Church, already members of the family of God!!!

    Good news for all, isn't it?

    Yes, good news for all - Christians and non-Christians alike, because this tells us that we all are part of the body of Christ. We are all In Christ.

    But does this mean that we all will make it to heaven and eternity? No sir! Why? Because there is yet blotting out of names from the book of life (Exo 32:32; Ps 69:28). And to be blotted out from the book of life is to be removed from the registry of heaven, dismembered from the Body of Christ, expelled from membership in the family of God.

    But our Savior assures us that overcomers will NOT be blotted out (Rev 3:5); instead, they will be seated with Him in His throne even as He also overcame and sat down with the Father in His throne (Rev 3:21).

    Therefore, overcome evil with good (Rom 12:21).

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    Yes, something remains.

    The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Hence, when a man commits sin, he must die so he can pay for his own sin he committed, for it is only through death that he can be freed from sin.

    KJV Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
    Good grief...too long, so I'll just address what I see as your first error.

    Paul is not referring to our physical death, which would not free us from sin or it's consequences.

    Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    Now, if you agree with that, then, please, post something in bite sized pieces so we can chew it up and digest it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Good grief...too long, so I'll just address what I see as your first error.

    Paul is not referring to our physical death, which would not free us from sin or it's consequences.

    Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

    Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    Now, if you agree with that, then, please, post something in bite sized pieces so we can chew it up and digest it.
    Paul told the Galatians he is crucified with Christ. That simply reiterates what he wrote the Ephesians about the body of the One New Man being Jews and Gentiles made into one body, that he, a Jew, being part of it, is likewise part of the body of Christ thru the One New Man Christ created in Himself PRIOR to His crucifixion. Hence, he was in Christ when Christ was crucified and therefore was crucified together with Christ.

    Same case applies to all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    Paul told the Galatians he is crucified with Christ. That simply reiterates what he wrote the Ephesians about the body of the One New Man being Jews and Gentiles made into one body, that he, a Jew, being part of it, is likewise part of the body of Christ thru the One New Man Christ created in Himself PRIOR to His crucifixion. Hence, he was in Christ when Christ was crucified and therefore was crucified together with Christ.

    Same case applies to all.
    The issue is spiritual...IN HIM there is neither jew nor goyim...but citizen of Israel...His people...

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Certainly NOT any law we have been delivered from.
    and for you yours being delivered (raptured) from a Law never actually dispensed to you...

    But the Law remains...despite your false claims

    Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
    yup...you are dead to it...not it to you...as long as you are IN HIM His way...

    Rather, if you bothered to read what Paul writes here, he makes it clear what it means to be ambassadors for Christ.
    He dispensed which law to you? You ambassador a lawless Christ

    If you need to be schooled on this text, I'm sure you could put off your jesting long enough to learn. Dare we wait?

    2 Cor. 15:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
    yup...to do and teach and live AS HE DID...we establish law...to love AS HE LOVED US...we fulfill the law...”do what they teach not was they do from Moses seat” Matt 23:3 but you raptured yourself from all that...





    I'm not a citizen of any Nation. My citizenship is in heaven. Philippians 3:20
    yes because on earth as it is in heaven...His people Israel are to work to establish that...you are a citizen of this group yes? Paul claims you are grafted into it...says specifically in Eph 2...in fact the Ephesus church in Rev 2:17 receive the manna if they overcome...

    Ah, the rapture again. That must be why you're so jealous....exactly like we're told the Jews would be. The unlearned always manage to mock what they don't understand. Romans 11:11
    Not jealous of a golden calf offered as true worship...Lord! Lord! Is not enough...

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    Ephesians, and the Body of Christ, was not revealed until after the death, and resurrection of Christ; not revealed until the revelations given Paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DougE View Post
    Ephesians, and the Body of Christ, was not revealed until after the death, and resurrection of Christ; not revealed until the revelations given Paul.
    You are right.

    And what can only be revealed are those that already exist but yet hidden. The existence of what was revealed antedates the instant of revelation.

    NKJ Romans 16:25-27 25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith -- 27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.

    NKJ Ephesians 3:3-6 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,

    NKJ Colossians 1:26-27 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

    NKJ 2 Timothy 1:9-10 9 [God] has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

    The truth about the One New Man that Christ created in Himself seems to have just dawned upon others now, yet this truth had existed and lain for ages in the sacred pages of the Holy Writ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    You are right.

    And what can only be revealed are those that already exist but yet hidden. The existence of what was revealed antedates the instant of revelation.

    NKJ Romans 16:25-27 25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith -- 27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.

    NKJ Ephesians 3:3-6 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,

    NKJ Colossians 1:26-27 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

    NKJ 2 Timothy 1:9-10 9 [God] has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

    The truth about the One New Man that Christ created in Himself seems to have just dawned upon others now, yet this truth had existed and lain for ages in the sacred pages of the Holy Writ.
    If you are saying, that the mystery revealed to Paul, was hidden in the law and prophets, please consider this verse;

    And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

    The mystery was hid in God, not in the scriptures of the law, and prophets.

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