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Thread: The Biblical reason why we were part of the body of Christ BEFORE He died...

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    The Biblical reason why we were part of the body of Christ BEFORE He died...

    Are we aware of the reason?

    If not, then it's about time we delve deeper into Scriptures about the One New Man that Christ created in Himself:

    NIV Ephesians 2:

    14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

    15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

    16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

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    John has Jesusí dying a full 24 hours BEFORE Mark, Matthew and Luke tell us.

    All the evangelists had their own agendas.

    Part of Johnís view was that Jesus was the Lamb of God sacrificed for humankindís sins.

    Thatís why he asserts that Jesus died on the Day of Preparation when the lambs were slaughtered for the next dayís Passover Holiday meal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    Are we aware of the reason?

    If not, then it's about time we delve deeper into Scriptures about the One New Man that Christ created in Himself:

    NIV Ephesians 2:

    14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

    15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

    16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
    Why do you assume anyone was a member of the Body of Christ before He died?

    I don't get what you're saying here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Why do you assume anyone was a member of the Body of Christ before He died?

    I don't get what you're saying here.
    I suggest you engage in a deeper study of the One New Man that Christ created in Himself. It was how I arrived at that conclusion. I hope and pray that thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit you will arrive at the same conclusion, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace
    Are not the words "by abolishing in his flesh" referring to the Lord Jesus' death (Col.1:22) and that death is what created one new man (in Himself), the body of Christ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    I suggest you engage in a deeper study of the One New Man that Christ created in Himself. It was how I arrived at that conclusion. I hope and pray that thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit you will arrive at the same conclusion, too.
    So you're not offering any evidence? How about just a little bit of evidence?

    Here ya go. Let's discuss the "new man" shall we?

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

    Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    So you're not offering any evidence? How about just a little bit of evidence?
    An exegetical analysis of Eph 2:14-16 reveals that the One New Man was created so that the TWO (2) - Jews & Gentiles - might be united in One Body which will be reconciled to God thru the cross. It then follows that the objective of making the 2 groups into 1 body is to effect reconciliation through the cross. Hence, the making into 1 body PRECEDES the state of being reconciled to God through the cross.

    And because the death of the Head reconciled His Body - the body of the One New Man - to God (Rom 5:10; Col 1:21, 22), it necessarily follows that the existence of that which is to be reconciled to God MUST PRECEDE the act that effected the reconciliation. otherwise there is nothing to reconcile.

    Therefore, we were already In Christ, being His Body, the Body of the One New Man to be reconciled to God, prior to His death - the act that effected our reconciliation.

    KJV Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    Are we aware of the reason?

    If not, then it's about time we delve deeper into Scriptures about the One New Man that Christ created in Himself:

    NIV Ephesians 2:

    14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

    15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

    16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
    It was always first BY FAITH...and then ONE LAW for the jew and foreigners...foreigners who wished to come into and belong to His people...Ex 20:10...oh and ask faithful Ruth Ruth 1:16

    Poor Stephen before he was stoned made mention that the One he saw in Glory above was the same Head of the ekklessia in the wilderness...Acts 7:38 one group His people...

    Sadly that wall Yahushua destroyed between jew and gentile has been replaced once again...with teaching the Law was to the jew...Grace to the rest...it is false witness the customs of Moses are changed by Him...Acts 6:13-14

    But back then some gentiles in that group (His body) flanked that wall by becoming jews first and then became believers...

    These were present that Pentecost Acts 2:5...and became believers in Him...

    Or like Cornelius who was devout and feared Yah with all his household...He was in this body which is WHY he was called to Peter to hear of Yahushua and readily accepted...Acts 10

    See? Faith compelling obedience destroys that wall between jew and goyim...

    Paul in Ephesians has believers as sovereign citizens of Israel Eph 2:19 His household...

    Undivided...NO WALL...meaning not divided between those that do (jews) and those that do NOT...or cuz they get MAD they think it is not for them to do...
    Last edited by clefty; March 13th, 2019 at 08:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    Are we aware of the reason?

    If not, then it's about time we delve deeper into Scriptures about the One New Man that Christ created in Himself:

    NIV Ephesians 2:

    14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

    15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

    16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.
    The reason that this doctrine is so disgusting is that it attempts to deny the necessity of justification. It states wrongly that being in Messiah we have already obtained the justness unto holiness necessary to be found in the beloved.
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truster View Post
    The reason that this doctrine is so disgusting is that it attempts to deny the necessity of justification. It states wrongly that being in Messiah we have already obtained the justness unto holiness necessary to be found in the beloved.
    Can you possibly share your thoughts on what the One New Man Christ created in Himself is and the reason why He created it, as the Bible says in Eph 2:14-16?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    Can you possibly share your thoughts on what the One New Man Christ created in Himself is and the reason why He created it, as the Bible says in Eph 2:14-16?
    The reason why he created the one new man was that it was The Father's will.

    This is a more accurate translation and may shed light for you, or not.

    For he is our shalom ó who made both one
    and loosed the middle hedge of partition;
    15 inactivating the enmity in his flesh,
    even the torah, misvoth in dogmas;
    that through himself
    he created the two into one new human,
    making shalom;
    16 and that he fully reconciled both to Elohim
    in one body through the stake,
    having slaughtered the enmity therein:
    17 and came and evangelized shalom
    ó to you who were afar off
    and to them who were near.
    18 For through him, in one Spirit,
    we both have access to the Father.
    I know Him, correctly, as Messiah whom you call Christ. Yah Shua whom you call Jesus. Messianists who you call Christians.

    "Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm".

    I refuse, point blank, to speak peace to the unregenerate, hypocrites, religious dogma lovers and those that oppose the following statement:
    A regenerate man trusts in the evangelism of salvation conditioned on the atoning blood and imputed justness of Messiah alone.
    If you are fully persuaded, by experience, of this delightful, beautiful and life giving doctrine then I love you as a brother.

    Anyone who thinks that salvation is conditioned on anything a man thinks, does or says is atheist. I cannot and will not speak peace to him or her.

    I don't make statements online that I wouldn't repeat in front of my Maker, my grandmother or a judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    An exegetical analysis of Eph 2:14-16 reveals that the One New Man was created so that the TWO (2) - Jews & Gentiles - might be united in One Body which will be reconciled to God thru the cross. It then follows that the objective of making the 2 groups into 1 body is to effect reconciliation through the cross. Hence, the making into 1 body PRECEDES the state of being reconciled to God through the cross.

    And because the death of the Head reconciled His Body - the body of the One New Man - to God (Rom 5:10; Col 1:21, 22), it necessarily follows that the existence of that which is to be reconciled to God MUST PRECEDE the act that effected the reconciliation. otherwise there is nothing to reconcile.

    Therefore, we were already In Christ, being His Body, the Body of the One New Man to be reconciled to God, prior to His death - the act that effected our reconciliation.

    KJV Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
    You seem to think it's a done deal....being reconciled by His death. Yet, something remains.

    2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truster View Post
    The reason why he created the one new man was that it was The Father's will.

    This is a more accurate translation and may shed light for you, or not.

    For he is our shalom ó who made both one
    and loosed the middle hedge of partition;
    15 inactivating the enmity in his flesh,
    even the torah, misvoth in dogmas;
    that through himself
    he created the two into one new human,
    making shalom;
    16 and that he fully reconciled both to Elohim
    in one body through the stake,
    having slaughtered the enmity therein:
    17 and came and evangelized shalom
    ó to you who were afar off
    and to them who were near.
    18 For through him, in one Spirit,
    we both have access to the Father.
    The translation you proffered speaks the same thing as other translations do. The One New Man was created by Christ in Himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You seem to think it's a done deal....being reconciled by His death. Yet, something remains.

    2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
    Ambassadors for Christ of which Law? The one of the Nation you are a citizen of or one you raptured yourself from keeping as it wasnt dispensed to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    The translation you proffered speaks the same thing as other translations do. The One New Man was created by Christ in Himself.
    Yeah but this translation says torah...so it looks like the new creation created by Christ does NOT observe torah...

    Despite that it is the enmity which is inactivated not the torah...

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