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Thread: Did the "Eternal Word" merge with a newly created human mind, will, and emotions?

  1. #91
    Veteran Jason0047's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    But you said that the Lord Jesus put on an empty soulless shell of a body that comes from angels
    This would be long before the Incarnation; Hence, why He was able to make pre-incarnate appearances under the title: "The Angel of the Lord" or the "Messenger of the Lord." (Note: The word "angel" can mean "messenger.").

    Side Note:

    It appears you did not read my full and entire explanation and this is why you are confused, as I knew you would be. If you were to read the explanation, you would have got it; Hence, this is the reason why I wanted to explain it to you in progressive parts.
    If you have never received the love that comes from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, check out this thread here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?132508-What-is-the-gospel-amp-what-is-it-s-end-goal-or-purpose-for-our-lives

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    This would be long before the Incarnation; Hence, why He was able to make pre-incarnate appearances under the title: "The Angel of the Lord" or the "Messenger of the Lord." (Note: The word "angel" can mean "messenger.").
    When those in the Body of Christ will be caught up at the rapture they will put on bodies just like the body of the Lord Jesus (Phil.3:21).

    And you said that when they are caught up then they will receive heavenly bodies like that of angels:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    This is when the body of Christ (the Bride) will rise to meet the Lord in the air. This Glorification includes receiving new heavenly bodies like that of angels
    According to you those in the Body of Christ will put on bodies like the angels and since their bodies will be like the Lord Jesus' body then according to your theory His body will also be like the bodies of angels.

    You don't even understand that He was made like His human brethren "in all things" (Heb.2:17).

    You are totally confused!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    When those in the Body of Christ will be caught up at the rapture they will put on bodies just like the body of the Lord Jesus (Phil.3:21).

    And you said that when they are caught up then they will receive heavenly bodies like that of angels:
    1 Corinthians 15:44 says that in the believer's resurrection, it is sown a natural body, but it is raise a spiritual body.

    "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. ..." (1 Corinthians 15:44).

    1 Corinthians 15 also says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

    "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." (1 Corinthians 15:50).

    In Matthew 22, we learn that in the resurrection, we are as the angels of God in heaven.

    "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." (Matthew 22:30).

    In Luke 20, in the resurrection, we are equal unto the angels.

    "Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." (Luke 20:36).

    For we have born the image of the earthy, but we also must bear the image of the heavenly.

    "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." (1 Corinthians 15:49).

    Yet, the Bible says that Jesus forever lives to make intercession for us.

    "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." (Hebrews 7:25).

    The Bible tells us in Jesus's own words that He is alive forever more.

    "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore," (Revelation 1:18).

    We know that Jesus ascended to the Father sometime shortly after His resurrection (See John 20:17).

    After Jesus returned from His ascension to the Father, He visited his disciples and told them that he was not a spirit and that he had flesh and bones.

    "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39).

    So Scripture is clear. We will have a spiritual body type resurrection to begin with (i.e. the Pre-Trib Rapture), and Jesus will always have his flesh and blood body.

    So how do we reconcile Philippians 3:21 in light of these truths within Scripture?

    Let's read it starting at verse 20.

    20 "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
    21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." (Philippians 3:20-21).

    Sounds like a contradiction, right? Verse 20 gives us the impression that we are in heaven because Paul's conversation is in heaven, and we are looking for Jesus, and then in verse 21, he quickly switches to talking about how our bodies will be changed to be like Christ's body. Sounds like the Rapture, right? Not exactly.

    First, the word "flesh" is mentioned 3 times in the beginning of the chapter (See Philippians 3:2-4).

    Second, Paul says that he might know the power of Christ's resurrection.

    "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;" (Philippians 3:10).

    Christ's resurrection was a physical one and not a spiritual one.

    Paul says that he might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

    "If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead." (Philippians 3:11).

    So Philippians 3:21 is not in reference to the Rapture, but it is in reference to the flesh and blood body resurrection of the DEAD that takes place LATER (after the Rapture).

    The Rapture is the taking up of both the LIVING and the DEAD. So it would not be accurate to say that it is the Resurrection of the DEAD.

    Note: Jesus is the exception to the rule on 1 Corinthians 15:50. For the context is about believers inheriting the Kingdom and not Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by You
    According to you those in the Body of Christ will put on bodies like the angels and since their bodies will be like the Lord Jesus' body then according to your theory His body will also be like the bodies of angels.
    There are two types of resurrections (each in two phases) for believers.

    There are two types of resurrections (each in two phases) for believers.

    #1. A Spiritual resurrection to Heaven (with the Pre-Trib Rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51-53) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) (Luke 12:40), and the Mid-Trib Rapture (Luke 21:28) (Luke 17:31-37) (Matthew 24:15-22).

    #2. A flesh and blood body resurrection of the dead (Before the Millennium (Revelation 20:4), and then another one at the Judgment or after it, which is then followed by the beginning of the reign of Christ with His faithful ones upon the New Earth for all eternity (Revelation 20:5)).

    Quote Originally Posted by You
    You don't even understand that He was made like His human brethren "in all things" (Heb.2:17).
    Again, the word "like" in Hebrews 2:17 suggests that Jesus was made LIKE unto his brethren in all things. Which things? Well, Jesus had a flesh and blood body like they did. Jesus also was limited in knowledge like them (at times), as well. But this was not always the case. Jesus also exhibited knowledge that was divine. Jesus also had power as God during His earthly ministry, and Jesus was worshiped as GOD. So... no. He was not exactly like unto His brethren "in all things." It does not say he was like unto his brethren in all things "EXACTLY." It says, "LIKE." The word "like" does not mean an exact replica or photocopy or clone.
    Last edited by Jason0047; March 15th, 2019 at 10:35 AM.
    If you have never received the love that comes from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, check out this thread here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?132508-What-is-the-gospel-amp-what-is-it-s-end-goal-or-purpose-for-our-lives

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    1 Corinthians 15:44 says that in the believer's resurrection, it is sown a natural body, but it is raise a spiritual body.

    "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. ..." (1 Corinthians 15:44).
    What do you think that Paul means when he says that at the resurrection the believers will have spiritual bodies?

    And what kind of body do you think that the Lord Jesus had before he was born of Mary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    What do you think that Paul means when he says that at the resurrection the believers will have spiritual bodies?
    A spiritual body is your spirit. We will receive new spirits or new spiritual bodies.
    Sown a natural body, and raised a spiritual body.
    Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (which is in regards to us entering Heaven and not an Earthly Kingdom of God later, i.e. the New Earth).

    Quote Originally Posted by You
    And what kind of body do you think that the Lord Jesus had before he was born of Mary?
    This was already explained in the first two spoiler buttons in Post #87 on page 6.
    If you have never received the love that comes from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, check out this thread here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?132508-What-is-the-gospel-amp-what-is-it-s-end-goal-or-purpose-for-our-lives

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    There are two types of resurrections (each in two phases) for believers:

    #1. A Spiritual resurrection to Heaven (with the Pre-Trib Rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51-53) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) (Luke 12:40), and the Mid-Trib Rapture (Luke 21:28) (Luke 17:31-37) (Matthew 24:15-22).

    #2. A flesh and blood body resurrection of the dead (Before the Millennium (Revelation 20:4), and then another one at the Judgment or after it, which is then followed by the beginning of the reign of Christ with His faithful ones upon the New Earth for all eternity (Revelation 20:5)).
    If you have never received the love that comes from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, check out this thread here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?132508-What-is-the-gospel-amp-what-is-it-s-end-goal-or-purpose-for-our-lives

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    A spiritual body is your spirit. We will receive new spirits or new spiritual bodies.
    So are you saying that the bodies in which Christians will be resurrected will have no substance? Please define what you think a "spiritual body" is like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So are you saying that the bodies in which Christians will be resurrected will have no substance? Please define what you think a "spiritual body" is like.
    Do you not know that the two angels (Who are spirit beings), that one of them was able to physically grab ahold of Lot?

    Are you not aware that angels were able to eat the food given to him by Abraham?
    Remember, there were three strangers that visited Abraham and he served them food, and they ate.

    Are you not aware that fallen angels are able to possess humans (Meaning they can physically effect them in a bad way)?

    "and whenever it seizes him, it slams him to the ground and he foams at the mouth, and grinds his teeth and stiffens out. I told Your disciples to cast it out, and they could not do it." (Mark 9:18).

    Do you not know that Moses face shined when He was talking with GOD?

    Moses was physically effected by GOD.
    If you have never received the love that comes from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, check out this thread here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?132508-What-is-the-gospel-amp-what-is-it-s-end-goal-or-purpose-for-our-lives

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    Do you not know that the two angels (Who are spirit beings), that one of them was able to physically grab ahold of Lot?
    So a spiritual body has substance and it is called a spiritual body because it belongs to the spiritual realm?

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    This seems like a one sided interrogation.
    Please answer my questions and then I will answer yours.
    If you have never received the love that comes from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, check out this thread here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?132508-What-is-the-gospel-amp-what-is-it-s-end-goal-or-purpose-for-our-lives

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    There are two types of resurrections (each in two phases) for believers:

    #1. A Spiritual resurrection to Heaven (with the Pre-Trib Rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51-53) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) (Luke 12:40), and the Mid-Trib Rapture (Luke 21:28) (Luke 17:31-37) (Matthew 24:15-22).

    #2. A flesh and blood body resurrection of the dead (Before the Millennium (Revelation 20:4), and then another one at the Judgment or after it, which is then followed by the beginning of the reign of Christ with His faithful ones upon the New Earth for all eternity (Revelation 20:5)).
    Blood? Where do you see blood there?

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Blood? Where do you see blood there?
    Leviticus 17:11 says the life of the flesh is in the blood.

    "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul." (Leviticus 17:11).

    After Jesus returns from His ascension to the Father, He visits His disciples and says that He has flesh and bones to them.

    "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39).

    So Luke 24:39 says Jesus has flesh.

    Hebrews 7:25 says that Jesus ever lives to make intercession for us believers.

    "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." (Hebrews 7:25).

    Life of the flesh is in the blood according to Leviticus 17:11.
    And Jesus is said to have flesh in Luke 24:39, and He is said to "live" according to Hebrews 7:25 (Note: Also see Revelation 1:18, too).

    Philippians 3:21 says that we will be fashioned like unto his glorious body.

    "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." (Philippians 3:21).

    We learn that after Christ's ascension to the Father and His return to see His disciples revealed that He had flesh and bones. Leviticus 17:11 says the life of the flesh is in the blood. Jesus did not resurrect so as to be dead. He was alive. He was still flesh, bones, and blood.

    According to Philippians 3:21: We will also one day take on the same flesh and blood body of Jesus one day.
    If you have never received the love that comes from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, check out this thread here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?132508-What-is-the-gospel-amp-what-is-it-s-end-goal-or-purpose-for-our-lives

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    This seems like a one sided interrogation.
    Please answer my questions and then I will answer yours.
    I am going along with your explanation but I just want you to clear up what you said and that is why I asked if a spiritual body has substance and it is called a spiritual body because it belongs to the spiritual realm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I am going along with your explanation but I just want you to clear up what you said and that is why I asked if a spiritual body has substance and it is called a spiritual body because it belongs to the spiritual realm?
    Humans have spiritual bodies. The spirit is united with a person’s soul and flesh and blood body. Humans have spirits because the spirit returns to God. What”s important to understand here is that spirits can interact with our physical realm (According to Scripture). You seem to be doubt about that fact.
    If you have never received the love that comes from accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, check out this thread here: http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?132508-What-is-the-gospel-amp-what-is-it-s-end-goal-or-purpose-for-our-lives

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    Humans have spiritual bodies.
    Scriptural support?

    Paul says that the spiritual body comes later. The natural man does NOT have a spiritual body and never will.

    1Cor 15:44 (AKJV/PCE)
    (15:44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    The spirit is united with a person’s soul and flesh and blood body.
    That does NOT make it a "spiritual body".

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason0047 View Post
    Humans have spirits because the spirit returns to God. What”s important to understand here is that spirits can interact with our physical realm (According to Scripture). You seem to be doubt about that fact.
    None of has anything to do with spiritual bodies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

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