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Thread: How’s your salvation tower coming along?

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    How’s your salvation tower coming along?

    Luke 14:26-30
    “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children,
    brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
    And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
    For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost,
    whether he has enough to finish it — lest, after he has laid the foundation,
    and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying,
    ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’?”

    We cannot be a disciple of Jesus
    ● IF we love ourselves (or a relative) more than Jesus
    ● IF we do not bear our crosses and come after Jesus
    Jesus warns us to count the cost
    ● of being a follower of Jesus
    ● of building our salvation tower
    ● of laying a proper foundation
    ● of finishing the whole process
    ● of enduring the shame of not finishing

    Matthew 16:24-26
    “Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself,
    and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it,
    but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains
    the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?"

    Jesus warns us to count the cost
    ● of coming after Him (being His disciple)
    ● of denying ourselves
    ● of taking up our crosses
    ● of losing our fleshly desires for His sake
    ● of exchanging our fleshly desires for eternal life

    Back to foundations
    Luke 6:46-49
    “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord’, and not do the things which I say? Whoever comes to Me,
    and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.”

    Jesus warns us
    ● to obey His teachings (for this is most critical)
    ● to dig deep when building our salvation house
    ● to build our foundation on the Rock who is Jesus

    Remember the narrow gate and the narrow way?
    Matthew 7:13-14
    “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction
    (eternal death), and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult
    is the way which leads to (eternal) life, and there are few who find it.”
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).

    The Lord Jesus said the following concerning how people receive spiritual life:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).
    The Lord Jesus said the following concerning how people receive spiritual life:
    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).
    You need to do some research on exactly what "pisteou" (believe) in the NT really means.
    Then, understand that it is impossible (in any language) to contain all of what it means
    in one single word.

    It actually includes repentance and obedience.

    So, we have: BELIEF-FAITH-REPENT-OBEY.

    Then, this true saving "belief" must ENDURE until the end of life.
    (I have a page full of NT verses that prove this.)
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    You need to do some research on exactly what "pisteou" (believe) in the NT really means.
    It means to think that something is true. The Lord Jesus said:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

    The Lord Jesus said that He is the Christ, the Son of God, and those who thought that was true were born of God (1 Jn.5:1-5).

    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    It actually includes repentance and obedience.
    Plesase quote an expert in the Greek language which gives that as one of the meanings of "pisteou."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Plesase quote an expert in the Greek language which gives that as one of the meanings of "pisteou."
    I believe it was Dr. Lester Sumrall, pentecostal evangelist world-wide,
    was as mystified as I ... re: the apparent ENORMOUS conflict between
    the so-called eternal security OSAS NT verses
    and ...
    the many other NT verses which oppose the former.

    He researched it heavily, and came up with (if I remember)
    true saving belief = deep faith + deep trust + obedience.

    I don't recall if he included ENDURING until the end of life!
    But, I have a full page of verses about the necessity of enduring!
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    I believe it was Dr. Lester Sumrall, pentecostal evangelist world-wide,
    was as mystified as I ... re: the apparent ENORMOUS conflict between
    the so-called eternal security OSAS NT verses
    and ...
    the many other NT verses which oppose the former.

    He researched it heavily, and came up with (if I remember)
    true saving belief = deep faith + deep trust + obedience.

    I don't recall if he included ENDURING until the end of life!
    But, I have a full page of verses about the necessity of enduring!
    Enduring to what? Those who believe already have eternal life:

    "Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).

    In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

    In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

    "The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."

    Therefore, John 6:47 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occurring in actual time."

    And we read here that those who believe will not perish:

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).

    It takes nothing more than believing because the Lord Jesus made it plain that His words bring spiritual life:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

    That explains why we read that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes:

    "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).

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    Okay, Jerry, you believe that the NT use of "believe"
    is the same as the secular use of that word!
    The problem is that your take on this ...
    just does NOT jive with the rest of the NT
    where there are bucket loads of warnings/threats of losing salvation.
    (I'll be listing dozens of them in 5 minutes.)

    There are many NT verses that teach us ...
    WE MUST ENDURE in the faith until the end of life.

    The PROOF of this is the ultimate TEST of one's faith (coming soon) when
    WE MUST NOT SUBMIT to taking the mark of the beast.
    If we take it, we will be going into the Lake of Fire!
    Just check it out: Revelation 13, 14, and 20.

    NO eternal security (OSAS) now or soon (the soon is just more obvious).
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Okay, Jerry, you believe that the NT use of "believe"
    is the same as the secular use of that word!
    The quote a Greek expert who gives a meaning of the Greek word translated "believe" which agrees with the meaning you place on that word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The quote a Greek expert who gives a meaning of the Greek word translated "believe" which agrees with the meaning you place on that word.
    Yes, what he came up with matches what I see must be the meaning
    because of what the rest of the NT teaches us!

    Many NT verses prove each of these spiritual truths:
    Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
    Believers stay righteous through their obedience
    Believers faith must endure until the end of their lives
    Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
    Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
    Believers must love, forgive, not judge or condemn
    Believers must be victorious overcomers

    One full page of Scripture verses is available
    for almost every one of the above topics.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Yes, what he came up with matches what I see must be the meaning
    because of what the rest of the NT teaches us!
    Nothing you said has anything to do with the meaning of the Greek word translated "believe."

    Please quote a Greek expert who gives a meaning of the Greek word translated "believe" which agrees with the meaning you place on that word.

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    Salvation? Already got it.

    I've finished the straight and narrow path and now have eternal life.

    "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

    "And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
    He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life."
    1John 5:11,12

    Apparently you're haven't arrived yet.

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