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Thread: Unless You Eat My Flesh And Drink My Blood

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Ummm...I am agreeing with you...it was NOT turned into blood...
    So you agree that what the Lord said in "bold" in the following passage is not to be understood in a literal sense?:

    "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom"
    (Mt.26:26-29).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So you agree that what the Lord said in "bold" in the following passage is not to be understood in a literal sense?:

    "And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom"
    (Mt.26:26-29).
    Yes NOT blood as He had not even died yet...

    That toast was to christen the new covenant as He signed and sealed it with His actual blood and actual death...no changes from the OT so

    Eating human flesh and drinking human blood WAS STILL UNCLEAN...

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Yes NOT blood as He had not even died yet...

    That toast was to christen the new covenant as He signed and sealed it with His actual blood and actual death...no changes from the OT so

    Eating human flesh and drinking human blood WAS STILL UNCLEAN...
    So you deny the teaching of the church of Rome in regard to what they call Transubstantiation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Yes it does...it just appears in its accidents...to be bread...

    “Consequently when we speak of transubstantiation, we mean that the whole substance of bread and wine, its "breadness" and "wineness," is replaced by the living and glorified Jesus Christ. What remains of what had been bread and wine is only their external properties that can be perceived by the senses. As the Greek Fathers of the Church say, the ousia or being of bread and wine is changed into the being or reality of Jesus Christ. On the altar after the consecration there is no longer bread and wine but the same Jesus who was crucified, died and rose from the grave; and who will come in his glory on the last day to judge the living and the dead.”

    https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/eucha5.htm

    So the allergin gluten must be in its appearance as bread...in its “looks like”...NOT in its substance...NOT its matter...AND not only His flesh but His entire body...not pieces but WHOLE
    You've given rich insight as to transubstantiation here. The thing is, though, that transubstantiation is, imho, an incorrect view of the eucharist.

    Sent from my SM-A750N using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
    .
    Regardless of how Christ is interpreted; one thing's for sure: unless people somehow eat his flesh and drink his blood, they have no life in them; viz: they are quite dead on the hoof.

    John 6:53 . . Jesus said: "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you."

    The kind of life about which he spoke is not organic life; rather, it's a supernatural kind of life.

    John 6:54 . . .Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life,

    According to John 10:28, eternal life is an imperishable kind of life. In other words; people have to obtain it only once, and they never have to obtain it again because eternal life cannot die, nor does it spoil or decay. Were that not true, then God would've died of old age long ago.
    _
    Metaphors (all) Unless you are of my Body and my Blood you will not eternal life. Yes, I believe in Jesus Christ in the Body that He sacrificed and the Blood that He shed for our Sins.

    Blade

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    Over 1000 post club WeberHome's Avatar
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    Post Re:

    .
    John 6:66 . . From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

    Well; we can hardly find fault with their decision to go away; I mean after all, the man was not only talking about cannibalism; but it is a breech of the Jews' covenant with God to eat blood.

    Lev 7:27 . . If anyone eats blood, that person must be cut off from his people.

    Lev 17:10 . . Any Israelite, or any alien living among them, who eats any blood-- I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

    Lev 17:14 . . The life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites: You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off.

    It could be argued that those passages forbid eating the blood of birds and beasts, but don't specifically outlaw eating human blood. Personally I don't see how the latter would be any less disgusting than the former, but I'm willing to leave the human blood question to each man's own conscience because, to my knowledge, the Bible doesn't address vampirism.

    Jesus and his men were all Jews under the jurisdiction of the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. If perchance their covenant forbids eating all blood, including human blood, then Jesus led his men into sin on the night of his last supper if the fruit of the vine that they all shared was in fact transubstantiation.
    _
    Last edited by WeberHome; March 24th, 2019 at 08:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
    .
    John 6:66 . . From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

    Well; we can hardly find fault with their decision to go away; I mean after all, the man was not only talking about cannibalism; but it is a breech of the Jews' covenant with God to eat blood.

    Lev 7:27 . . If anyone eats blood, that person must be cut off from his people.

    Lev 17:10 . . Any Israelite, or any alien living among them, who eats any blood-- I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

    Someone might object that those passages forbid eating the blood of birds and beasts, but don't specifically outlaw eating human blood. Personally I don't see how the latter would be any less disgusting than the former, but I'm willing to leave the human blood question to each man's own conscience because, to my knowledge, the Bible doesn't address vampirism.

    Jesus and his men were all Jews under the jurisdiction of the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. If perchance their covenant forbids eating all blood, including human blood, then Jesus led his men into sin on the night of his last supper if the fruit of the vine that they all shared was in fact transubstantiation.
    _
    But if you believe the false witness Yahushua changed the customs delivered by Moses then you are allowed to not only eat swine but cannibalize...

    Dr. Hahn says that by partaking of the flesh and blood of Christ we do, in fact, want to "cut" ourselves off from the Old Covenant. In accepting the flesh and blood of the God-Man, we implicitly renounce adherence to the Old Covenant, which forbid cannibalism. Christ took upon Himself the curse of the Old Covenant, and we too must accept that "cutting off" from the Old Covenant to be truly accepted into the New. Therefore, we take upon ourselves the reprobation of the Old Covenant which was reserved to those who ate and drank blood by doing the very thing which God prohibited under the Old Law. This we accomplish when we partake of our Lord's sacrifice by receiving His true Body and Blood in the Eucharist. This act definitively "cuts us off" from the Old Covenant and incorporates us into the New.

    http://unamsanctamcatholicam.com/apo...nnibalism.html

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Christ took upon Himself the curse of the Old Covenant, and we too must accept that "cutting off" from the Old Covenant to be truly accepted into the New.
    Gentiles were never under the Old Covenant, the law of Moses (Ro.2:14).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Gentiles were never under the Old Covenant, the law of Moses (Ro.2:14).
    Not all gentiles at that time is true but

    Leviticus 19:34
    Verse Concepts
    'The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.

    Exodus 12:49
    Verse Concepts
    "The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you."

    Leviticus 24:22
    Verse Concepts
    'There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the LORD your God.'"

    Numbers 9:14
    Verse Concepts
    'If an alien sojourns among you and observes the Passover to the LORD, according to the statute of the Passover and according to its ordinance, so he shall do; you shall have one statute, both for the alien and for the native of the land.'"

    Numbers 15:14
    Verse Concepts
    'If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, just as you do so he shall do.

    Numbers 15:15
    Verse Concepts
    'As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD.

    Numbers 15:16
    Verse Concepts
    'There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.'"

    Numbers 15:29
    Verse Concepts
    'You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them.

    Deuteronomy 1:16
    Verse Concepts
    "Then I charged your judges at that time, saying, 'Hear the cases between your fellow countrymen, and judge righteously between a man and his fellow countryman, or the alien who is with him.

    Deuteronomy 24:14
    Verse Concepts
    "You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns.

    Leviticus 18:26
    Verse Concepts
    'But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you

    Exodus 12:19
    Verse Concepts
    'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land.

    Exodus 20:10
    Verse Concepts
    but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

    Deuteronomy 5:14
    Verse Concepts
    but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

    Leviticus 16:29
    Verse Concepts
    "This shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you;

    Leviticus 17:8
    Verse Concepts
    "Then you shall say to them, 'Any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice,

    Leviticus 17:10
    Verse Concepts
    'And any man from the house of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.

    Leviticus 22:18
    "Speak to Aaron and to his sons and to all the sons of Israel and say to them, 'Any man of the house of Israel or of the aliens in Israel who presents his offering, whether it is any of their votive or any of their freewill offerings, which they present to the LORD for a burnt offering--

    Leviticus 17:13
    Verse Concepts
    "So when any man from the sons of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, in hunting catches a beast or a bird which may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth.

    Leviticus 24:16
    Verse Concepts
    'Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

    Numbers 15:26
    'So all the congregation of the sons of Israel will be forgiven, with the alien who sojourns among them, for it happened to all the people through error.

    Is why we are to go to all nations and preach the gospel so that they might KNOW HIM...and His Ways...by which we establish the Law...

    You know because He is for ALL nations to worship...from Sabbath to Sabbath even...Isaiah 66:23

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Dr. Hahn says that by partaking of the flesh and blood of Christ we do, in fact, want to "cut" ourselves off from the Old Covenant.
    According to Heb 9:16-17, the new covenant wasn't put into force until Jesus was crucified. Therefore the night of his last supper, Jesus and his men were still under the jurisdiction of the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

    If that covenant forbids Moses' people to eat blood, including human blood, then Jesus sinned by leading his men to sin if indeed the fruit of the vine they all shared prior to his crucifixion was transubstantiation.
    _

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post
    Not all gentiles at that time is true but
    The words which I quoted of Paul where he said that the Gentiles are not under the Old Covenant, the Law of Moses, were written after the verses which you quoted were written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeberHome View Post
    .


    According to Heb 9:16-17, the new covenant wasn't put into force until Jesus was crucified. Therefore the night of his last supper, Jesus and his men were still under the jurisdiction of the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

    If that covenant forbids Moses' people to eat blood, including human blood, then Jesus sinned by leading his men to sin if indeed the fruit of the vine they all shared prior to his crucifixion was transubstantiation.
    _
    Yup...and that Acts 15 Jerusalem council was concluded with blood still not to be consumed...as goyim came to hear Moses preached and read in every city on every Sabbath...still

    So no rare steaks...
    Last edited by clefty; March 11th, 2019 at 10:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The words which I quoted of Paul where he said that the Gentiles are not under the Old Covenant, the Law of Moses, were written after the verses which you quoted were written.
    Of gentiles that had never heard the Law...but once you hear the holy commandment don’t go back to your own vomit ok?

    And gentiles of circumcised hearts know His voice but rather He knows them...because they obey

    Paul was speaking of those gentiles that do good without knowing the good they do or why...we are to tell them...
    Last edited by clefty; March 11th, 2019 at 10:44 AM.

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    Some notes:

    'Transubstantiation' is not the same thing as the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Catholics believe transubstantiation, but the Orthodox and Catholics both believe in the Real Presence.

    That's approaching two-thirds of all the world's Christians who believe in the Real Presence.

    The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of the Lord Jesus, not just His body and blood.

    John chapter six begins with the feeding of the five thousand, a shadow of the Eucharist. The bread is but a morsel, but because of the eternal reality of the Eucharist, it is a feast's worth of physical food for the Church, and there is no limit to how frequently Catholics in full communion with the Church can receive Holy Communion. Many Catholic parishes celebrate the Eucharist every day of the week, and twice (or more) on Sundays.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Curious to me that no one can decide what the criterion is for getting into the Afterlife. What I see over and over again is Jesus saying some seeds are scattered on rocky ground, others on too wet ground and others on just right soil.

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