User Tag List

Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: The Words Which I Speak Are Spirit and They Are LIfe

  1. #1
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,691
    Thanks
    1,280
    Thanked 8,724 Times in 5,722 Posts

    Mentioned
    97 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147835

    The Words Which I Speak Are Spirit and They Are LIfe

    The MADs on this forum argue that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works. However, the continue to run and hide from the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life"
    (Jn.6:63).

    What words of the Lord Jesus brought spiritual life to the Jews who believed? First, we know that He was proclaiming that He is Christ:

    "Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me"
    (Jn.10:24-25).

    The Lord Jesus said He is the Christ and He said that He is the Son of God (Jn.10:36). Those who believed Him were born of God and received spiritual life:

    "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"
    (1 Jn.5:1-5).

    "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name"
    (Jn.20:30-31).

    Despite the fact that the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law that He is the Christ, the Son of God, and that those who believed Him were born of God the MADs say that faith by itself was not enough to bring salvation to the Jews who lived under the law. Here is what the Apostle John said about what resulted in the Jewish believers being born of God:

    "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God"
    (Jn.1:11-13).

    The facts couldn't be any plainer that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith and faith alone but the MADs on this forum deny this truth. The are unable to even understand the simple words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke to the Jews in the following passage:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).

  2. #2
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,132 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147829
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The MADs on this forum argue that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works. However,
    However, Jerry insists on claiming works were not required by God for those under the Law. But what do we see throughout the Gospels? Even when God sent Peter to Cornelius, works of righteousness were required in order to be ACCEPTED BY GOD.

    Acts 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

    Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    Before a man can be saved, he must first be ACCEPTED by God.



    What profit is Christ to those under the Law (circumcision) when they are debtors to do the whole law?

    3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.


    This is why James says faith without works is dead. James was speaking to those Jews who Jerry is attempting to hand Grace to where it was not being offered apart from works.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (March 8th, 2019)

  4. #3
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,691
    Thanks
    1,280
    Thanked 8,724 Times in 5,722 Posts

    Mentioned
    97 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147835
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    However, Jerry insists on claiming works were not required by God for those under the Law.
    Unlike you I happen to believe the following words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).

    Of course you not only ignored those words of His but also these:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

    I showed you that the words of His which brought Spiritual life to those who believed were His words where He said He is the Christ, the Son of God. And it is a fact that the Jews who believed Him about that were born of God:

    "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-5).

    "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the children of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (Jn.1:11-13).

    The Jews who lived under the law were born of God and became children of God when they believed that the Lord Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Are you so lacking in spiritual discernment that you not even know that at that moment they were saved?

    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    This is why James says faith without works is dead. James was speaking to those Jews who Jerry is attempting to hand Grace to where it was not being offered apart from works.
    You overlook what James said in the first chapter:

    "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).

    Those who believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, were born again by that truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    What profit is Christ to those under the Law (circumcision) when they are debtors to do the whole law?

    3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
    Yes, the Jews who lived under the law were to keep the whole law but if they broke any commandment they were guilty of all:

    "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all"
    (Jas.2:10).

    Since the Lord Jesus told the Jews that none of them kept the law then all of them were guilty of all. How can being guilty of all contribute to anyone's salvation?

  5. #4
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,132 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147829
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Unlike you I happen to believe the following words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).

    So, if I say to bring a gun when you go hunting, does that mean you won't need to bring anything else?


    How about a hunting license? Course, most hunters know that part.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to glorydaz For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (March 8th, 2019)

  7. #5
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    103
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts

    Blog Entries
    5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Even when God sent Peter to Cornelius, works of righteousness were required in order to be ACCEPTED BY GOD.

    Acts 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

    Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    Before a man can be saved, he must first be ACCEPTED by God.
    Do you apply that also to the New Covenant?

    If so, that is right, ultimately.

    For:

    Romans 2:6 [God] will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath . . .

    For under the New Covenant, whereas initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

  8. #6
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,691
    Thanks
    1,280
    Thanked 8,724 Times in 5,722 Posts

    Mentioned
    97 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147835
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    So, if I say to bring a gun when you go hunting, does that mean you won't need to bring anything else?
    What the Lord Jesus said here to the Jew who lived under the law is either true or false:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life"
    (Jn.6:47).

    I say that it is true. If it took something more than faith for them to be saved He surely wouldn't have mentioned only "believing." Besides that, He told the Jews that He is the Christ, the Son of God, and those who believed Him were born of God (1 Jn.5:1-5).

    But you are unable to understand these simple things because you cannot understand spiritual things. Your final authority is not the Bible but instead it is what some of the MADs on this forum have told you. You are amazingly gullible!

  9. #7
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Luis Potosi,Mexico
    Posts
    13,691
    Thanks
    1,280
    Thanked 8,724 Times in 5,722 Posts

    Mentioned
    97 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147835
    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    Do you apply that also to the New Covenant?

    If so, that is right, ultimately.

    For:

    Romans 2:6 [God] will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath . . .
    Those who "continue" in well doing will receive eternal life. But no one continues in well doing because all people sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by bibleverse2 View Post
    For under the New Covenant, whereas initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part
    Eternal life is described as being a gift (Ro.6:23) and so those who have already received eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) do not have to do works in order to receive that gift. And this is what the Lord Jesus said about those to whom He gives eternal life:

    "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).

    Your ideas contradict the Lord Jesus' own words and for some reason you fail to believe what we read here:

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life"
    (Jn.3:16).

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us