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Thread: Jesus is God vs. Jesus is YHVH

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    It says that all of the fullness of Deity dwells in Him in bodily form.
    That's what I said.
    All the fulness of God's attributes dwells in Jesus, who is a body.
    The problem is, most people INTERPRET this statement WITHOUT properly considering the REST of Scripture .... while being influenced GREATLY by the traditions/brain washing of their theology.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    That's what I said.
    All the fulness of God's attributes dwells in Jesus, who is a body.
    The problem is, most people INTERPRET this statement WITHOUT properly considering the REST of Scripture .... while being influenced GREATLY by the traditions/brain washing of their theology.
    How do you read it yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    How do you read it yourself?
    Are you asking how I interpret the text?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Are you asking how I interpret the text?
    That is acceptable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    That is acceptable.
    For me, the first step in exegesis is reading the text.
    The second step is looking at the context..... who is speaking, who is being spoken to, what is the topic of that context, etc.
    The third step for me is, looking at ANY words that seem to teach something unusual .... checking the Greek/Hebrew word, and it's definition.
    The fourth step is USUALLY, I research every text that uses that specific Greek/Hebrew word, (Englishman's Dictionary is AWESOME for that purpose).
    The fifth step is to examine any synonymous terms, to get an even more detailed view of the greater context of Scripture.
    A sixth step would be to examine any other passages that discuss the topic.
    A seventh step would be to keep my mind open for God's guidance. All of these steps should include prayer for guidance.

    I am convinced the Scriptures all are in harmony, and it is MY responsibility to study every Scripture I can find, to get the details of that harmony.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    For me, the first step in exegesis is reading the text.
    The second step is looking at the context..... who is speaking, who is being spoken to, what is the topic of that context, etc.
    The third step for me is, looking at ANY words that seem to teach something unusual .... checking the Greek/Hebrew word, and it's definition.
    The fourth step is USUALLY, I research every text that uses that specific Greek/Hebrew word, (Englishman's Dictionary is AWESOME for that purpose).
    The fifth step is to examine any synonymous terms, to get an even more detailed view of the greater context of Scripture.
    A sixth step would be to examine any other passages that discuss the topic.
    A seventh step would be to keep my mind open for God's guidance. All of these steps should include prayer for guidance.

    I am convinced the Scriptures all are in harmony, and it is MY responsibility to study every Scripture I can find, to get the details of that harmony.
    Sounds good to me.

    Do you see a difference between

    Jesus is FULL of God

    and

    all the fullness of Deity dwells in Him in bodily form?

    Colossians 2:9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

    New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Sounds good to me.

    Do you see a difference between

    Jesus is FULL of God

    and

    all the fullness of Deity dwells in Him in bodily form?

    Colossians 2:9
    Yes. The Greek does NOT support the pagan term "Deity". The Greek indicates attributes belonging to God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Yes. The Greek does NOT support the pagan term "Deity". The Greek indicates attributes belonging to God.
    I do not know why you say this. I feel that this is the word Deity in the Bible and in relation to Jesus God's Son.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Yes. The Greek does NOT support the pagan term "Deity". The Greek indicates attributes belonging to God.



    Strong's g2320

    - Lexical: θεότης
    - Transliteration: theotés
    - Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
    - Phonetic Spelling: theh-ot'-ace
    - Definition: deity, Godhead.
    - Origin: From theos; divinity (abstractly).
    - Usage: godhead.
    - Translated as (count): Deity (1).



    You were saying?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    I am convinced the Scriptures all are in harmony, and it is MY responsibility to study every Scripture I can find, to get the details of that harmony.
    You focus too much on the details, and never om the overview.

    It's called missing the forest for the trees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    You focus too much on the details, and never om the overview.

    It's called missing the forest for the trees.
    That would ONLY be true if the overview actually STATED "Jesus is God".
    It doesn't.

    On the other hand, the Scriptures state .... over an over, Jesus is a man.

    Your overview is inaccurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post



    Strong's g2320

    - Lexical: θεότης
    - Transliteration: theotés
    - Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
    - Phonetic Spelling: theh-ot'-ace
    - Definition: deity, Godhead.
    - Origin: From theos; divinity (abstractly).
    - Usage: godhead.
    - Translated as (count): Deity (1).



    You were saying?
    Are you really surprised to be able to find a trinitarian biased publication of man????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    I do not know why you say this. I feel that this is the word Deity in the Bible and in relation to Jesus God's Son.
    I say this because the three times KJV translates the Greek into "Godhead", are each a unique variation of the word "Theos"... indicating is is God's attributes we are discussing.
    The Scriptures are exquisitely clear, there is "ONLY one true God".... and that is Jesus' Father.

    On another note, it is not in the least remarkable that God is full of Godly attributes.
    It is UNIQUE when a MAN is full of Godly attributes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    That would ONLY be true if the overview actually STATED "Jesus is God".
    It doesn't.

    On the other hand, the Scriptures state .... over an over, Jesus is a man.

    Your overview is inaccurate.
    On the contrary...

    If you have an overview of what the Bible says about Jesus, it unequivocally shows Him to be both man AND God.

    In the Old Testament, Whenever God uses men to speak for Him, they say, "Thus says the LORD," about 420 times.

    But that's not used in the New Testament, NOT ONCE.

    Jesus Himself, with all the red ink devoted to His words, never once used "Thus says the Lord." Instead, He says, "I say unto you," 135 times.

    "Thus says the LORD" and "I say unto you" indicate the same thing: God is speaking. Jesus Christ made it clear that He Himself was at the heart of His teaching, that the focus of His message was Himself, unlike all the righteous priests and kings, prophets and the apostles.

    [The rest of this post is directly from http://kgov.com/deity. I strongly recommend that you read through all of it, as long as it is. I will break it up so you don't have to scroll so much.]


    Christ's Self-focus:

    Spoiler
    • “Follow Me” 19x Mt. 4:19; 8:22; 10:38; 16:24; 19:21; Mk. 1:17; 2:14; 8:34; 10:21; Lk. 5:27; 9:59; 18:22; Jn. 1:43; 8:12; 10:27; 12:26; 13:36; 21:19, 22
    • Pray and act “in My name” 18x Mt. 7:22; 18:5; 18:20; [24:5]; Mk. 9:37, 39, 41; [13:6]; Lk. 9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; Jn. 14:13?14; 15:16; 16:23?24, 26; Acts 9:15
    • “the Holy Spirit” comes “in My name” Jn. 14:26
    • “for My name’s sake” leave family and property Mt. 19:29; or even be killed 5x Mt. 24:9; [Lk. 21:12, 17;] Jn. 15:21; Acts 9:16
    • Believe in the “name of the… Son” and “in the Son” 3x Jn. 3:18, 36; 9:35 and “in Him [Jesus]” 4x Jn. 3:18; 6:29, 40; 8:31
    • “believe in Me” 14x Mt. 18:6; Mk. 9:42; Jn. 3:15?16, 18; 6:35, 47; 7:38; 11:25, 26; 12:44, 46; 14:1, 12; 16:8; 17:20
    • You “are sanctified by faith in Me” Acts 26:18
    • Live “in Me” Jn. 11:26
    • “come after Me” Mk. 8:34; Lk. 14:27
    • Abide “in Me” Jn. 15:2, 4:5, 7 “abide in Me” or else Jn. 15:6 “abide in My love” Jn. 15:9?10
    • “where two or three are gathered” Jesus is “there in the midst of them” Mt. 18:20
    • So too: “I [Jesus, will abide] in you” Jn. 15:4?5
    • “know that I am He” Jn. 8:28 or “if you do not believe that I am He you will die in your sins” Jn. 8:24
    • Do things “for My sake” Mt. 10:22, 39; even lose your life “for My sake” 4x Mt. 16:25; Mk. 8:35; 10:29; Lk. 6:22
    • “I never knew you, depart from Me” Mt. 7:23
    • “I am willing; be cleansed” Mt. 8:3; Mk.. 1:41
    • ”confess Me” Mt. 10:32; Lk. 12:8
    • Do not deny “Me” 7x Mt. 10:33; 26:34; Mk. 14:30, 72; Lk. 12:9; 22:34; Jn. 13:38
    • Do not be “ashamed of Me” Mk. 8:38; Lk. 9:26 nor "My words"
    • “love Me” 5x Jn. 14:15, 21, 23?24, 28
    • Do not reject “Me” Lk. 10:16; Jn. 12:48
    • “He who is not with Me is against Me” Lk. 11:23
    • Love Me “more than” your family members Mt. 10:37; [Lk. 14:26]
    • “I… have loved you” Jn. 15:9, 12
    • Be “worthy of Me” Mt. 10:37?38
    • “Come to Me” 5x Mt. 11:28; Lk. 6:47; Jn. 5:40; 6:35; 7:37
    • “I will give you rest” Mt. 11:28
    • “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light” Mt. 11:30
    • I am “greater than the temple” “than Jonah” “than Solomon” Mt. 12:6, 41?42
    • I am “Lord even of the Sabbath” Mt. 12:8; Mk. 2:28; Lk. 6:5 [Lord of God's Ten Commandments]
    • Thus He says keep “My commandments” 4x Jn. 14:15, 21; 15:10, 12
    • “You are My friends if you do whatever I command you” Jn. 15:14
    • “keep My word” Jn. 14:23?24
    • “He who is not with Me is against Me” Mt. 12:30
    • The angels are “His angels” Mt. 13:41; 16:27 and He commands “His angels” Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27
    • The kingdom is “His kingdom” Mt. 13:41 and He calls it “My kingdom” Lk. 22:30
    • Jesus called it “My church” Mt. 16:18 and believers are “My sheep” Jn. 10:14, 27 and they are “His elect” Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27
    • Paul is a “vessel of Mine to bear My name” Acts 9:15
    • “all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine” Jn. 17:10
    • “My peace I give” Jn. 14:27 ”in Me you may have peace” Jn. 16:33
    • “My joy” should fill you Jn. 15:11
    • “Who do men say that I am?” Mt. 16:13; Mk. 8:27 “who do you say that I am?” Mt. 16:15
    • Receive “Me” Mt. 18:5; Mk. 9:37; Lk. 9:48
    • Heaven and earth will pass away but “My words” will never Mt. [5:18] 24:35; Mk. 13:31; Lk. 21:33
    • Tell others about Jesus Mk. 5:19
    • “you belong to Christ” Mk. 9:41
    • Hear “My sayings” and do them Lk. 6:47
    • Jesus has “His own glory” Lk. 9:26; [Jn. 2:11; 16:14] The Son is “glorified” 8x Jn. 11:4; 12:23; 13:31?32; [17:1, 5, 10 24]
    • “He who hears you hears Me” Lk. 10:16
    • Jesus expects praise, from stones if necessary 1x Lk. 19:37?40
    • Return “to Me” Lk. 22:32
    • Be “My disciple” Lk. 14:27; Jn. 8:31; 15:8 Forsake all to “be My disciple” Lk. 14:33 you are My disciples” Jn. 13:35
    • “I shall send… the [Holy] Spirit” Jn. 15:26; 16:7
    • The Holy Spirit “will testify of Me” Jn. 15:26
    • We read in John 5 and Luke 24 that “the Scriptures… testify of Me” Jn. 5:39; [Lk. 24:44]
    • “You [Apostles] also will bear witness [of Me] because you have been with Me” Jn. 15:27
    • Paul gives “testimony concerning Me” Acts 22:18; 23:11
    • “the Son gives life to whom He will” Jn. 5:21
    • “seek Me” Jn. 6:26
    • Serve “Me” Jn. 12:26
    • “all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father” Jn. 5:23
    • “I am the bread of life,” “of heaven,” “of God” Jn. 6: 32-33, 35, 41, [48,] 51
    • Just seeing Christ is reason enough to believe [Jn. 6:36] him” Jn. 6:56
    • Drink “My blood” and eat “My flesh” Jn. 6:53?54, 56
    • “I will raise him up at the last day” Jn. 6:40 for He is the resurrection
    • “The world… hates Me” Jn. 7:7
    • “I am the light of the world” Jn. 8:12; 9:5; 12:46
    • “I bear witness of Myself” 1x Jn. 8:13-14, 18
    • “know… Jesus Christ” for “eternal life” Jn. 17:3; [8:19; 10:10, 14]
    •“the Son makes you free” Jn. 8:36
    •“Abraham rejoiced to see My day” Jn. 8:56; •“Before Abraham was, I AM” Jn. 8:58
    •Of believers, Christ said, “I know them” Jn. 10:27
    •“I give them eternal life” Jn. 10:28
    •“I am the resurrection and the life” Jn. 11:25
    •I “will draw all peoples to Myself” Jn. 12:32
    •“I will… receive you to Myself” Jn. 14:3
    •Be “Mine” Jn. 14:24
    •“I am the vine” Jn. 15:5
    •“without Me you can do nothing” Jn. 15:5
    •“You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you” Jn. 15:16
    •Those who oppress Christians are “persecuting Me” Acts 9:4?5; 22:7?8; 26:14?15
    •“because they have not known… Me” Jn. 16:3
    •The Spirit “will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it” Jn. 16:14
    •“All things that the Father has are Mine” Jn. 16:15
    •“the Father… loves you, because you have loved Me” Jn. 16:27
    •“If I will that he remain” Jn. 21:22
    •“I have overcome the world” Jn. 16:33
    •“I am the way” Jn. 14:6
    •“I am… the truth” Jn. 14:6
    •“I am… the life” Jn. 14:6
    •“I will… manifest Myself” Jn. 14:21

    As a summary, scores of times Jesus uses the personal pronoun My with words like: commandments, sake, words, lambs, sheep, peace, love, joy, voice, name, sayings, kingdom, angels, and church. Three examples powerfully illustrate the point. First, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day..." Secondly, "I know My sheep, and am known by My own." And thirdly, "Assuredly, I say to you... Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away." The prophets and John were the messengers; Jesus is the Message, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and put Himself at the center of His message, because He is God.


    The Forest for the Trees:

    Spoiler
    A simple overview of Christ's message shows overwhelmingly that He is the Message. Thus, He is either a blasphemer, or God Himself. Very strong individual verses also show the Deity of Christ. The powerful and traditional deity proof texts far more effectively show Christ's deity when presented along with the big picture of the ministry and message of Jesus Christ. Those traditional passages include John 1:1, 14; 9:38; 20:28; Mat. 2:11; Rom. 9:5; 2 Tim. 2:13; Heb. 1:3, 6, 8; Isa. 45:5, 18, 21 with John 1:3 and Titus 2:13; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:16-17; Rev. 1:8, 18; 5:11-6:1.


    The Deity of Christ and Eternal Separation:

    Spoiler
    Two doctrines, the afterlife of eternal separation from God in hell, and that of the deity of Christ, are inextricably linked. Therefore many of those who deny the deity of Christ, including Jehovah's Witnesses, Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, Ronald Hubbard's Scientology, and Christian Science, also deny an afterlife of eternal separation from God. Why? God put eternity in our hearts (Eccl. 3:11) and so only a payment of infinite worth, something greater than the eternal futures of billions of human beings, could suffice to pay the price for our combined sin. When false teachers dismiss eternal punishment in Hades, they then fail to see the necessity of a Sacrifice of infinite worth.


    Jesus Is God:

    Spoiler
    The dramatic contrast in the above chart shows Christ’s self-presentation compared to the angels and prophets who present God to the world. These other messengers elevated not themselves, but God. They focused attention not on themselves but on Him. Godly priests, kings, and apostles presented God as their motivating message, of course, and not themselves. Jesus, on the other hand, came speaking about Himself. His most oft used, favorite title for Himself, undoubtedly selected also to communicate His mission, is not the "Son of God", but the "Son of Man". For, eternally He was the Son of God, but being the Son of Man was new to Him and uniquely cherished. God the Son submits Himself to the Father, willingly, not as a sign of a lesser God, but of His greatness. For as He lowers Himself, He is exalted to the central truth of Creation! (See the above chart.) Thus His "I say unto you" is the Scripture's "Thus Saith the Lord"!


    Three in the Bible:

    Spoiler
    God exists as three persons in one Godhead, whom we refer to as the Trinity. Thus human beings made in His image also have a triune nature, and the cosmos itself is understood in threes, in the most fantastic ways. Before considering this, first see the Bible's extraordinary use of this number. Christ was three days in the tomb, which Jonah’s three days foreshadowed, as did Abraham’s three days of thinking that he would sacrifice his son Isaac on that same hill called Golgotha and Mt. Moriah (Gen. 22:14; 2 Chron. 3:1). Israel's three patriarchs are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The priestly tribe of Levi is from Jacob's third child (Gen. 29:34), as Leviticus is the third book of the Bible. And the day the law was given, the sons of Levi killed “about three thousand men” (Ex. 32:28), whereas the day the Spirit was given, “that day about three thousand souls were [saved] (Acts 2:41; and see 2 Cor. 3:6). The Hebrew Scriptures comprise three sections, the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings (Luke 24:44), and God created three archangels. The most noteworthy women are Eve, Sarah, and Mary. The magi brought gold, frankincense and myrrh. Three persons (one being the Son) started their public service at thirty years of age: Joseph (Gen. 41:46), a deliverer of his people; David (2 Sam. 5:4) seated on the messianic throne (2 Sam. 7:12-13); and "Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age" (Luke 3:23). God could have led Esther to fast for two days, or four; and He could have kept Jonah in the whale for one day, or a week, but three days and three nights prefigures God’s plan of salvation for Christ’s time in the grave. For Jesus "rose again the third day according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:4). And thus, the triune Christian God, the mystery of the Trinity, Three Persons in One God, is the one God whose testimony we can trust (answering both the philosophical problem of the origin of the one and the many, and Euthyphro's Dilemma by Socrates), having imprinted our world and even ourselves with His triune nature.


    Threes Everywhere:

    Spoiler
    The number three manifested in Scripture turns the Christian's attention outward to see space existing in three dimensions, height, width, and length, as does time in past, present and future. The electromagnetic force operates in positive, negative, and neutral, and in pigment the three primary colors are red, yellow, and blue whereas in light they are red, green, and blue which three blend into the hues of the rainbow. We human beings on this third planet from the Sun experience matter primarily in three states, solid, liquid, and gas. The strongest shape for building is the triangle. Writers often give three examples and artists group in threes as in interior design, sculpting, and even movie directors, as they have the word trilogy (1, 2, 3) but no word for any other number of films. Photographers use the rule of thirds and the language of DNA uses only three-letter words. Everything reinforces the triune aspect of all of existence, a reflection of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. See more at kgov.com/3.


    Tripartite Man:

    Spoiler
    And so we humans are body, soul, and spirit (1 Thes. 5:23). For God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness…" (Gen. 1:26). So mankind is made in God's image and likeness, image referring to our form, and likeness to our essence as sentient, morally-responsible persons. And unlike animals which look to the ground, men and women stand upright with a heavenly gaze. For the first thing that God created was a form, that is, an image, for the eternal Son to indwell (Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14: Heb. 1:3; 5:5; 10:5; 2 Cor. 4:4; John 1:14; Phil. 2:5-6; 1 Tim. 2:5; Rev. 1:13-18). And in that image "He made man" (Gen. 9:6), and not in the image of apes. "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them (Gen. 1:27).


    The Plurality in God:

    Spoiler
    The very first verse of Genesis presents the plurality of God, with Genesis 1:1 using a plural subject and a singular verb, that is, In the beginning, gods He created the heavens and the earth. Elohim is the plural of the typical Hebrew word for God, which is El (cherub and seraph for example become plural as cherubim and seraphim, with Elah likely being the dual form, and Elohim being a plurality, in this case, three). So, did Moses make a grammatical error in the first sentence of the first book of Scripture, in what has become not only the world's best-selling book, but in the most well-known sentence in the history of the world by using a singular verb with a plural subject? Of course not. For this was intentional. The Hebrew Scriptures in the most solemn texts presents God as a unified plurality. What grammarians refer to as the "royal we" comes from God's references to Himself using the plural: "Let Us make man in Our image," (Gen. 1:26). The solemn Hebrew prayer, called the Shema Yisroel, to the "one God" uses another plurality. For "The Lord our God, the Lord is One (of plurality)" at Deuteronomy 6:4 uses neither of the expected terms, yachad or even bad, words meaning a singularity, but God's Word uses the word echad, which is one in plurality as used by God at the Tower of Babel, "the people are one," and by Joseph "the dreams of Pharaoh are one," and by Moses, "the people answered with one voice," and back again to the beginning of Genesis at the institution of marriage when God says, "and they shall become one flesh." So this foundation prayer to God does not the use the Hebrew words for one, which mean a singularity (which words are never used in the Bible referring to God), but God describes Himself in the Bible using the One of plurality. So the Shema says: the Jehovah (who is the one God) our Elohim (plural) Jehovah is a Plural Unity! And Deuteronomy 6:4 is the central passage to all theology of God. Then the Scriptures go on to teach that the three persons of the Trinity are God the Father (Isa. 63:16; Mal. 2:10), God the Son (Ps. 2:12; Zech. 12:10 and as in the chart above), and God the Spirit (Gen. 1:2; Isa. 48:16; Isa. 6:3).

    And finally, denial of Christ's deity is a central teaching of many of today's cults, including for example the Jehovah's Witnesses. A lack of understanding of the plurality of the Godhead creates philosophical dilemmas such as the problem of the one and the many. And Socrates' pre-Christian argument against God called Euthyphro’s Dilemma is resolved by none of the world's religions except for the Christian Answer to Euthyphro in the eternal corroborating testimony of the three Witnesses of the Trinity.


    Postscript -- Is the Father-Son Relationship Eternal?

    Spoiler
    The Scriptures help us see the errors in two claims about the Son that are held by a minority of believers, many of whom, thankfully, do assent to the Trinity and the deity of Jesus Christ. One false teaching is the claim that no triunity existed in God until He decided to express Himself in that way. The link above, the Christian Answer to Euthyphro's Dilemma in the eternal corroborating testimony of the three Witnesses of the Trinity, presents the biblical rebuttal to that first claim. The second related erroneous claim, as written about by Zeller and Showers, admits that the Persons of the Trinity have existed eternally, but that the Second Person did not become the "Son" until the Incarnation. This teaching at least has a proof text, which however appears to have been misapplied. One form of this second error is that through eternity past the second Person of the Trinity was the "Word" but not the "Son". This position claims that it was not until the Incarnation, or thereabouts, when the Father's prophecy was fulfilled, "This day have I begotten Thee", that the Word became the Son. The claim here is that the First Person of the Trinity sent the Second Person, the Word, to the world, who thereby became the Son. Let's look at four rebuttals to this claim.

    Spoiler
    First, the Bible never says that God sent the Word to the Earth who then became the Son. Among His many titles (the Christ, the Alpha and Omega, the Lamb of God, the Prince of Peace, the Son of Man, the Bridegroom, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, etc.), the Second Person of the Trinity is also referred to as the Word (John 1:1, 14) and He was of course sent to the Earth. However, when the Bible addresses the topic of WHO was sent to Earth, WHO came, WHO was given to the world, we don't read that the Word was sent and He became the Son, but rather, each time we read that:
    - "He loved us and sent His Son" (1 John 4:10)
    - "the Son of God has come" (1 John 5:20)
    - "God gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16; and 3:17)
    - "Unto us a Son is given" (Isaiah 9:6)
    - "God sent forth His Son, born of a woman" (Gal. 4:4)
    - "the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world" (1 John 4:14)
    - "In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world" (1 John 4:9).
    Again, God did not send the Word into the world who became the Son through the Incarnation when He got here. Rather, God sent His "Son into the world". Even in the parable, "Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son'" (Mat. 21:37), "having one son, his beloved, he also sent him" (Mark 12:6).


    Spoiler
    A second way of recognizing from Scripture that the Son is eternal is that the "Father" is eternal. Without a Son, the First Person of the Trinity would not have been the Father. Further, with all the Old Testament passages referring to God as Father notwithstanding, He would not have become the Father until about 2,000 years ago with the Incarnation. However, while the famous messianic prophecy of Isaiah 9 raises the deep mystery of the separateness within, yet also the oneness of, God, its description of Him as "Everlasting Father" has long been held by Christians to teach that throughout eternity past, the Father has been the Father. As the Apostle Paul wrote, "there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things" (1 Cor. 8:6), such that everything that has flowed from Him has flowed from Him as "the Father". Likewise, to the Ephesians, the Hebrew poetry places in proximity the "one Spirit" with the "Father of all", reinforcing that as the Holy Spirit has been eternally the Spirit, so too with the Father, as likewise when Luke recorded, "Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, 'I thank You, Father'" (Luke 10:21) and Matthew, "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Mat. 28:19). Of course also, in the Hebrew Scriptures, prior to the Incarnation, God was referred to as Father. "Have we not all one Father? Has not God created us?" (Mal. 2:10; see also Deut. 32:6; Ps. 68:5; Isa. 63:16; 64:8; [43:10]; John 8:41; 5:21 [evidently referring to the three Old Testament resurrections]). Yes, of course, "Father" could be used as a metaphor, like the Father of our Country or the Father of Creation. However, that metaphor does not hang on nothing. It is "Our Father who art in heaven" that gives rise to the use of the Father metaphor. Also, the parallel passages to those above, regarding that the "Son" was sent, are those that teach us that the "Father" is the one who sent Him, such as Jesus' own frequently repeated statements about "the Father who sent Me" (John 5:30, 36-37; 6:39, 44, 57; 8:16, 18, 29, 42; 12:49; 14:24) and "I have come in My Father's name" (John 5:43). That is, the First Person who sent the Second Person to Earth, at the time of the sending, was already the Father. So to be the everlasting Father, of necessity, eternally, He has had a Son.


    Spoiler
    Thirdly, the burden of proof for such a new doctrine is on the person claiming that the Godhead's relationships were different prior to the creation, or prior to the Incarnation, than they are today. However, with its one proof text, the scriptural evidence will fail to make the case if that passage is not making a claim about the past First and Second persons relationship, but rather, is referencing the future Incarnation when God the Son will be begotten to become the Son of Man. For Psalm 2:7 is a messianic Incarnation prophecy. "You are My Son, today I have begotten You." The immediate context, and the three times that this passage is quoted, shows that this relates to the messianic plan for the Second Person rather than to the First Person's past relationship with the Second Person. In context, this is about Jesus as God's "King on My holy hill of Zion" [i.e., Jerusalem] (Ps. 2:6). That description applies because of and sometime after the Holy Spirit overshadows Mary, for "that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit" (Mat. 1:20). So too, each of the three quotes of Psalm 2:7 refer explicitly to its fulfillment in the First Advent of Jesus Christ (Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:5; 5:5). "And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm..." (Acts 13:32-33). Thus while some see Psalm 2 as claiming no past Father-Son relationship, the alternative traditional understanding is that it is referring to when God the Son becomes the Son of Man taking upon Himself the messianic role, with the Godhead as the Progenitor, so to speak, begetting Jesus' earthly existence. The writer of Hebrews quotes Psalm 2 and then explicitly connects it to a prophecy of the Incarnation, for Mary, Jesus' true earthly mother, descended from the line of David. "I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom... I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be his Father, and he shall be My son" (1 Sam. 7:12-14). This messianic Incarnation prophecy is then quoted in Hebrews 1:5, again reinforcing that Psalm 2:7 refers to the Incarnation. Likewise, when quoted in Hebrews 5, the passage is associated with the prophecy that Christ would "become High Priest", another reference to His role through the Incarnation. Thus, the New Testament interprets Psalm 2:7 not as referring to some past spiritual begetting of the Son by the Father, but to God's begetting of His eternal Son through the virgin Mary whereby He became "the Son of Man", His favorite title for Himself.


    Spoiler
    Finally, Scripture teaches about the Second Person of the Trinity that, "All things were created through Him" (Col. 1:16) and "without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:3). If these are literal and comprehensive, that means that the Second Person of the Trinity is the one who actually created everything. The things created explicitly include all the created positions of authority, "whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers" (Col. 1:16). That leaves this false teaching in the awkward position of claiming that while the Second Person was eternally existing, the "Sonship" was a created position. Yet, if it were, one would expect that the Son Himself would have created that position, which seems untenable. The Son wouldn't create His own "Sonship". Yet He indeed created every position of authority. That again suggests, as with the above three extensive observations and natural readings from Scripture, that the Father-Son relationship was not brought into existence but that it eternally emanated from the Godhead and that therefore God the Son is eternally the only begotten Son of the Father.


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