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Thread: Jesus is God vs. Jesus is YHVH

  1. #121
    Over 3000 post club Apple7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post

    Satan's future is WELL mapped out;
    Rev 20:1-3 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.




    Rev 20:7-10 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night — to the ages of the ages. YLT

    Incorrect.

    The Dragon, The Old Serpent, The Devil, Satan was bound ‘edēsen’ (completed action), cast into the abyss ‘ebalen’ (completed action), shut ‘ekleisen’ (completed action), and sealed ‘esphragisen’ (completed action), that he can no longer deceive people‘planēsē’(singular, completed action), by Jesus. Rev 20.1 – 3

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    You are so confused.
    Jehovah/YHVH God spoke His words to Abraham.
    Jehovah then took Abraham outside.
    Gen 15:1-6 After these things hath the word of Jehovah been unto Abram in a vision, saying, 'Fear not, Abram, I [am] a shield to thee, thy reward [is] exceeding great.'
    2 And Abram saith, 'Lord Jehovah, what dost Thou give to me, and I am going childless? and an acquired son in my house is Demmesek Eliezer.'
    3 And Abram saith, 'Lo, to me Thou hast not given seed, and lo, a domestic doth heir me.'
    4 And lo, the word of Jehovah [is] unto him, saying, 'This [one] doth not heir thee; but he who cometh out from thy bowels, he doth heir thee;'
    5 and He bringeth him out without, and saith, 'Look attentively, I pray thee, towards the heavens, and count the stars, if thou art able to count them;' and He saith to him, 'Thus is thy seed.'
    6 And he hath believed in Jehovah, and He reckoneth it to him — righteousness.
    YLT

    You just confirmed that The Word of God IS God!

    Just like John already told you.

    You knew you heard it somewhere....but, we will let you believe that you finally came to that conclusion on your own...

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  5. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    ..... yes, there is a tiny bit of "past" from 90AD ish, when John received the vision, but that isn't relevant to the information in Rev 19. That chapter is discussing Christ's 2nd coming, and his bloody destruction of the Kings of the earth.

    It hasn't happened yet.
    Jesus' name as 'The Word of God' was declared in the OT.

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  7. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Yes, we have been here before, and you are still wrong,

    This text isn't speaking about Jesus, it is speaking about Jehovah ending the Babylonian captivity of Israel, by the hand of Cyrus.... who Jehovah called by name;

    Isa 45:1-6 Thus saith Jehovah to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him, and I will loose the loins of kings; to open the doors before him, and the gates shall not be shut:
    2 I will go before thee, and make the rough places smooth; I will break in pieces the doors of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron;
    3 and I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that it is I, Jehovah, who call thee by thy name, even the God of Israel.
    4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel my chosen, I have called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
    5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me;
    6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else.
    Dartman..You said "Yes, we have been here before, and you are still wrong,

    This text isn't speaking about Jesus, it is speaking about Jehovah ending the Babylonian captivity of Israel, by the hand of Cyrus.... who Jehovah called by name;"


    In other words the scripture I posted should read something like this.
    Isaiah 48:16......
    "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (Jehovah), and his Spirit,(the Holy Spirit) hath sent me."(me = Jehovah)
    (parenthesis for emphasis)

    Alright...I think we got a winner here!!!!! Of course, you are going to say NO....for if it is as I said, then Jesus was GOD in the beginning.

    A conundrum for your theology...NO?

    have a good evening.

    Blade

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  9. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Sorry, "sons of God" means angels in the OT;
    But... he didn't say sons, he said, "Son of God." That makes all the difference in the world.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Incorrect.


    Col 2.13 – 15

    και υμας νεκρους οντας τοις παραπτωμασιν και τη ακροβυστια της σαρκος υμων συνεζωοποιησεν υμας συν αυτω χαρισαμενος ημιν παντα τα παραπτωματα εξαλειψας το καθ ημων χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν ο ην υπεναντιον ημιν και αυτο ηρκεν εκ του μεσου προσηλωσας αυτο τω σταυρω απεκδυσαμενος τας αρχας και τας εξουσιας εδειγματισεν εν παρρησια θριαμβευσας αυτους εν αυτω

    kai hymas nekrous ontas en tois paraptōmasin kai tē akrobystia tēs sarkos hymōn synezōopoiēsen hymas syn auto charisamenos hemin panta ta paraptōmata exaleipsas to kath' hēmōn cheirographon tois dogmasin ho ēn hypenantion hemin kai auto ērken ek tou mesou prosēlōsas auto tō staurō apekdysamenos tas archas kai tas exousias edeigmatisen en parrēsia thriambeusas autos en autō

    And you, being dead in the transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the transgressions, having blotted out the handwritten bond in the decrees against us, which was an adversary to us, and He has taken him out of the way, having nailed him to The Cross; having stripped of authority the rulers and the powers, He made a show of them in public, triumphing over them in Him.

    Here is the rational for this passage pertaining to Satan:

    • The closest preceding nominative (subject) word to ‘He has taken him out of the way’ is the word ‘hypenantion’, rendered as ‘adversary’.
    • ‘Adversary’ is singular.
    • The only other inflection of this word, in the entire NT, is in the plural term ‘hypenantious’ and is used in Heb 10.27 in the context of a fiery judgment for the ‘adversaries’.
    • Clearly, the singular ‘hypenantion’ is Satan; and the plural ‘adversaries’ are the demons.
    • The singular neuter personal pronoun ‘auto’ which follows it, can, and does, apply to ‘him’.
    • Juxtaposed to this is the conquering of evil in the statements of disarming ‘the rulers and the powers’, which are evil spirits.
    • This public display, at The Cross, is referred to using the term ‘thriambeusas’, triumphing, which carries the meaning, ‘I lead one as my prisoner in a triumphant procession’.
    • Clearly, and unmistakably, the reader is informed that Satan was bound as a prisoner at The Cross.
    Col 2:13-17 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


    The text is discussing the Mosaic Law..... NOT Satan!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    But... he didn't say sons, he said, "Son of God." That makes all the difference in the world.
    ... it just means in one context there are two or more .... and in Daniel there was only one angel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    Dartman..You said "Yes, we have been here before, and you are still wrong,

    This text isn't speaking about Jesus, it is speaking about Jehovah ending the Babylonian captivity of Israel, by the hand of Cyrus.... who Jehovah called by name;"


    In other words the scripture I posted should read something like this.
    Isaiah 48:16......
    "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (Jehovah), and his Spirit,(the Holy Spirit) hath sent me."(me = Jehovah)
    (parenthesis for emphasis)

    Alright...I think we got a winner here!!!!! Of course, you are going to say NO....for if it is as I said, then Jesus was GOD in the beginning.

    NO.
    You are taking the sentence out of context, which is horrible exegesis.
    You are ignoring the REST of Scripture, which is horrible exegesis.

    Quote Originally Posted by B
    A conundrum for your theology...NO?
    Quote Originally Posted by B
    NO!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    You just confirmed that The Word of God IS God!
    God's words ARE God!
    When you read His words ..... THAT IS GOD SPEAKING!!!!

    Just like John already told you.

    You knew you heard it somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    God's words ARE God!
    When you read His words ..... THAT IS GOD SPEAKING!!!!

    Just like John already told you.

    You knew you heard it somewhere.
    except when they go against your theology? right?

    Blade

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    God's words ARE God!
    So, not only do you deny that God is three persons, you deny that God is even one person. INSTEAD of a person(s) you claim that words are God.
    Last edited by 7djengo7; March 14th, 2019 at 08:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Jehovah/YHVH God spoke His words to Abraham.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    God's words ARE God!
    So, you're saying that God spoke God to Abraham.

    And, since you say that "God's words ARE God", then, when you say "His words", you are saying "His [God]". By the phrase, "God's words", you are saying "God's God". You're saying that God has a God.

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  20. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    God's words ARE God!
    When you read His words ..... THAT IS GOD SPEAKING!!!!

    Just like John already told you.

    You knew you heard it somewhere.
    Jesus is The Word of God, therefore, according to your very own admission, Jesus IS God.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Col 2:13-17 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


    The text is discussing the Mosaic Law..... NOT Satan!
    What Greek words would those be...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunner View Post
    In John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    and in Rev 1:8.."I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

    Jesus Christ
    Yochanan (John)
    1:1. In the beginning was the Miltha. And that Miltha was with Elohim. And Elohim was that Miltha. 2. This was with Elohim in the beginning. 3. Everything existed through his hands, and without him, not even one thing existed of the things which have existed.
    14.And the Miltha became flesh and dwelt among us and we saw his glory, the glory as the Only-Begotten who is from the Father who is full of grace and truth.

    From the notes in the Aramaic English New Testament:
    Miltha refers to the : “Manifestation of the Ruach haKodesh within Mashiyach”


    Rev 1:8 is YHWH speaking not Y'sur. It should not be printed in RED.
    Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

    I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ

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