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Thread: Jehovah alone is the creator of the Universe.

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    TOL Subscriber PneumaPsucheSoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Of course it is. Your description following, trying to avoid the obvious mess you've made, is not remotely close to learning the rudiments of Greek. It would be learning the rudiments of Bible study.


    I agree with this premise, but that is NOT "learning the rudiments of Greek"!
    Now, given that we agree on this premise, how would you measure the difference between your training and mine?
    You are making a totally blind assumption about my training, and what I have learned over the decades I have been studying the Bible.

    Please give examples .... rather than shooting blindly.

    LOL ..... sorry, in my many years of discussing Scripture with trinitarians, most proponents of the trinity VERY QUICKLY try to hide in the "minutiae"!!
    Because they have ZERO Scriptures that actually STATE their theories!!
    The theories associated with defining the trinity are EXCLUSIVELY Greek philosophical terms, and CONTRADICT the OT and NT statements about Jehovah/YHVH, and His holy servant Jesus.

    Please provide a definition of "ONLY".
    Any biblical linguist can tell you have NO understanding of linguistics.

    Only in John 17:3 is monos, an adjective. And this refers to the ousia (essence), and is not applicable to the hypostasis (substance). The Trinity doctrine affirms this. It’s the “oneness” aspect of God versus the “threeness” aspect of God.

    All you have referred to here is the singular ousia that is Divinity. There is no other divinity than the singular ousia. That’s Trinitarianism, not your false caricatures of it in misunderstanding and misrepresentation.

    If you were a linguist, this wouldn’t even be a question; especially if you knew what the Trinity doctrine is.


    You have admitted that Trinitarian theology is mainstream Christianity. You are an outlier. A heretic. And so are all your Socinian/Christadelphian/Unitarian peers. There is space for you to repent. Just lay aside your pride and ignorance. God is gracious and merciful.
    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

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  3. #257
    Super Moderator JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Sorry, Jesus isn't discussed until verse 7, God's words (LOGOS) are.
    Nope. LOGOS. SINGULAR.

    Even all the following pronouns that refer to the LOGOS (singular) are singular.

    Words (plural) are not being discussed.

    HO LOGOS (the word) is being discussed.

    And, we KNOW Jesus cannot be Jehovah, since Jehovah promised Israel that HE would put HIS words in Jesus' mouth ..... and Jesus confirms;

    John 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
    John 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

    John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings (logos) : and the word (logos) which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

    1) The verses previously given show conclusively, Jehovah/YHVH God ALONE created the Universe.
    Jesus is described as being the Creator of the universe in Colossians:

    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. - Colossians 1:15-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    So your first assertion can't be right.

    2) Jesus is Jehovah's servant, Jehovah's chosen..... NOT Jehovah himself!
    The following passages are speaking of the LORD, Jehovah, yes?:

    Hear my prayer, O Lord, And let my cry come to You.Do not hide Your face from me in the day of my trouble; Incline Your ear to me; In the day that I call, answer me speedily. - Psalm 102:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    and

    But You, O Lord, shall endure forever, And the remembrance of Your name to all generations. - Psalm 102:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    and

    So the nations shall fear the name of the Lord, And all the kings of the earth Your glory.For the Lord shall build up Zion; He shall appear in His glory.He shall regard the prayer of the destitute, And shall not despise their prayer.This will be written for the generation to come, That a people yet to be created may praise the Lord.For He looked down from the height of His sanctuary; From heaven the Lord viewed the earth,To hear the groaning of the prisoner, To release those appointed to death,To declare the name of the Lord in Zion, And His praise in Jerusalem,When the peoples are gathered together, And the kingdoms, to serve the Lord. - Psalm 102:15-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    and

    Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.They will perish, but You will endure; Yes, they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will change them, And they will be changed.But You are the same, And Your years will have no end.The children of Your servants will continue, And their descendants will be established before You.” - Psalm 102:25-28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    All about Jehovah, yes?

    This is what the author of Hebrews says, speaking of the Son, Jesus:

    But to the Son He says:
    “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
    And:
    “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment;Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.”
    - Hebrews 1:8-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    Verses 10-12, you'll note, are a quote from Psalm 102, a prayer to Jehovah by name that could not be talking to or about any other being. The author of Hebrews even addresses the son as the "Lord." Such a title, especially when quoting a psalm such as 102, is referring to "YHWH" or "Jehovah." The Book of Hebrews thus plainly identifies Jesus as Jehovah.

    So that's your second assertion blown out of the water.

    3) John CLEARLY uses "LOGOS" in it's natural, common meaning. "Something said or written". This should help your understanding of John 1.
    And?

    You've never heard of metaphors?
    Last edited by JudgeRightly; March 19th, 2019 at 02:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PneumaPsucheSoma View Post
    Any biblical linguist can tell you have NO understanding of linguistics.
    shrug/ this is just more bluster on your part, based on the fact that I have the nerve to disagree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by PPS

    Only in John 17:3 is monos, an adjective.
    Absolutely true.
    Quote Originally Posted by PPS
    And this refers to the ousia (essence), and is not applicable to the hypostasis (substance).
    100% conjecture, and contrary to the context. Jesus is CLEARLY comparing two essential doctrines;
    1) The Father is "the ONLY true God".
    2) Jesus was "sent by" the ONLY true God.

    Again, your attempt to dig down to the "minutiae" is obscuring your view of the FOREST~~~!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PPS
    You have admitted that Trinitarian theology is mainstream Christianity. You are an outlier.
    That's a VERY reassuring position, in the light of Scripture;
    Matt 7:13-15 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    And, the majority have followed a false "Christ".

    Acts 20:28-31 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
    31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.


    This apostasy was led by the "ELDERS" in the church ... not all of them, but like Justin Martyr, who was a disciple of Greek philosophy, they began to pollute the Church with "another Jesus", a "false Christ".

    Rev 17:1-6 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
    2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
    6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.


    Rev 17:17-18 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    In Biblical prophecy women represent a spiritual group that SHOULD be believers. Israel, and the "bride of Christ" are classic examples.
    The "great whore" is a spiritual group, that SHOULD be believers .... which committed fornication (spiritual adultry) with the kings of the earth.

    Verse 18 is graphically clear we are talking about Rome.

    It is true that pagan Rome reigned over the kings of the earth, and was guilty of the blood of martyrs ...... but they were not a "spiritual group that SHOULD be believers".

    So, let's turn to history/church history.

    What "spiritual group" is centered in Rome, and which reigned over the kings of the earth ..... like making a king wait barefooted, in the snow, for 3 days, in order to beg for forgiveness .... or, that exercised their power to APPOINT kings, and demanded the right to crown kings, etc.?

    What "spiritual group" that is centered in Rome has slaughtered ANY that opposed them for more than 1,000 years, with burning at the stake, inquisitions, and crusades ..... taking MILLIONS of lives?


    Yep, you guessed it!


    There is space for you to repent. Just lay aside your pride and ignorance. God is gracious and merciful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Nope. LOGOS. SINGULAR.

    Even all the following pronouns that refer to the LOGOS (singular) are singular.

    Words (plural) are not being discussed.

    HO LOGOS (the word) is being discussed.



    Jesus is described as being the Creator of the universe in Colossians:

    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. - Colossians 1:15-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    So your first assertion can't be right.



    The following passages are speaking of the LORD, Jehovah, yes?:

    Hear my prayer, O Lord, And let my cry come to You.Do not hide Your face from me in the day of my trouble; Incline Your ear to me; In the day that I call, answer me speedily. - Psalm 102:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    and

    But You, O Lord, shall endure forever, And the remembrance of Your name to all generations. - Psalm 102:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    and

    So the nations shall fear the name of the Lord, And all the kings of the earth Your glory.For the Lord shall build up Zion; He shall appear in His glory.He shall regard the prayer of the destitute, And shall not despise their prayer.This will be written for the generation to come, That a people yet to be created may praise the Lord.For He looked down from the height of His sanctuary; From heaven the Lord viewed the earth,To hear the groaning of the prisoner, To release those appointed to death,To declare the name of the Lord in Zion, And His praise in Jerusalem,When the peoples are gathered together, And the kingdoms, to serve the Lord. - Psalm 102:15-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    and

    Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.They will perish, but You will endure; Yes, they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will change them, And they will be changed.But You are the same, And Your years will have no end.The children of Your servants will continue, And their descendants will be established before You.” - Psalm 102:25-28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    All about Jehovah, yes?

    This is what the author of Hebrews says, speaking of the Son, Jesus:

    But to the Son He says:
    “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
    And:
    “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment;Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.”
    - Hebrews 1:8-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    Verses 10-12, you'll note, are a quote from Psalm 102, a prayer to Jehovah by name that could not be talking to or about any other being. The author of Hebrews even addresses the son as the "Lord." such a title, especially when quoting a psalm such as 102, is referring to "YHWH" or "Jehovah." The Book of Hebrews thus plainly identifies Jesus as Jehovah.

    So that's your second assertion blown out of the water.



    And?

    You've never heard of metaphors?
    The MINIMUM take-away is the Divinity of Christ, but the Trinity is clearly present as a biblical doctrine in all of these references.
    Ecclesia reformata et semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei
    “The Church reformed and always reforming, according to the Word of God.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Sorry, Jesus isn't discussed until verse 7, God's words (LOGOS) are.

    And, we KNOW Jesus cannot be Jehovah, since Jehovah promised Israel that HE would put HIS words in Jesus' mouth ..... and Jesus confirms;

    John 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

    John 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

    John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings (logos) : and the word (logos) which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


    1) The verses previously given show conclusively, Jehovah/YHVH God ALONE created the Universe.
    2) Jesus is Jehovah's servant, Jehovah's chosen..... NOT Jehovah himself!
    3) John CLEARLY uses "LOGOS" in it's natural, common meaning. "Something said or written". This should help your understanding of John 1.
    All I can do is show you the truth, cant cause you to believe it
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    All I can do is show you the truth, cant cause you to believe it
    You will have to show me Scripture. That's the ONLY way to establish faith.
    And, in more than 60 years of intense Bible Study ... I have never found any text that clearly, simply and directly stated ANY tenet unique to trinity or oneness theories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    You will have to show me Scripture. That's the ONLY way to establish faith.
    And, in more than 60 years of intense Bible Study ... I have never found any text that clearly, simply and directly stated ANY tenet unique to trinity or oneness theories.
    Yeah right. I showed u scripture

    Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
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    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Super Moderator JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Nope. LOGOS. SINGULAR.

    Even all the following pronouns that refer to the LOGOS (singular) are singular.

    Words (plural) are not being discussed.

    HO LOGOS (the word) is being discussed.



    Jesus is described as being the Creator of the universe in Colossians:

    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. - Colossians 1:15-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    So your first assertion can't be right.



    The following passages are speaking of the LORD, Jehovah, yes?:

    Hear my prayer, O Lord, And let my cry come to You.Do not hide Your face from me in the day of my trouble; Incline Your ear to me; In the day that I call, answer me speedily. - Psalm 102:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    and

    But You, O Lord, shall endure forever, And the remembrance of Your name to all generations. - Psalm 102:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    and

    So the nations shall fear the name of the Lord, And all the kings of the earth Your glory.For the Lord shall build up Zion; He shall appear in His glory.He shall regard the prayer of the destitute, And shall not despise their prayer.This will be written for the generation to come, That a people yet to be created may praise the Lord.For He looked down from the height of His sanctuary; From heaven the Lord viewed the earth,To hear the groaning of the prisoner, To release those appointed to death,To declare the name of the Lord in Zion, And His praise in Jerusalem,When the peoples are gathered together, And the kingdoms, to serve the Lord. - Psalm 102:15-22 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    and

    Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.They will perish, but You will endure; Yes, they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will change them, And they will be changed.But You are the same, And Your years will have no end.The children of Your servants will continue, And their descendants will be established before You.” - Psalm 102:25-28 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    All about Jehovah, yes?

    This is what the author of Hebrews says, speaking of the Son, Jesus:

    But to the Son He says:
    “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
    And:
    “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment;Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.”
    - Hebrews 1:8-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    Verses 10-12, you'll note, are a quote from Psalm 102, a prayer to Jehovah by name that could not be talking to or about any other being. The author of Hebrews even addresses the son as the "Lord." Such a title, especially when quoting a psalm such as 102, is referring to "YHWH" or "Jehovah." The Book of Hebrews thus plainly identifies Jesus as Jehovah.

    So that's your second assertion blown out of the water.



    And?

    You've never heard of metaphors?
    Bump for @Dartman

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Apple7, Each of these words have their own range of meaning and are not equivalents. I understand that the Word of God is not speaking about the 2nd Person of the Trinity here in Ezekiel 1, but it is the Word of God, and it includes the interaction of Ezekiel with what God speaks initially, but also refers to what Ezekiel eventually speaks, the Word of God. This is equivalent to Ezekiel being commissioned as a prophet to speak the words of God. Thus when the Word of God came to John in the wilderness it was not the 3rd Person of the Trinity as you suggest but again signalling the commencement of his ministry. The vision of the Cherubim and Throne in Ezekiel 1 is a vision, not a reality. The very fact that each Cherubim has four different faces and has calves feet is some indication of this.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    Incorrect.

    In Ezekiel, ‘The Word of God’ is recorded as speaking to Ezekiel, hundreds of times.

    Conversely, Ezekiel is recorded as speaking ‘The Word of God’, ZERO times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    This small sample of the verses on this topic CLEARLY, SIMPLY AND DIRECTLY STATE .... Jehovah/YHVH God, is the ONLY creator of the Universe, and Jesus is His "servant".

    Jeremiah 32.17

    Ah, Lord Yahweh! (Father) You have made the heavens and the earth by Your Great Power (Holy Spirit) and Your outstretched Arm (Son); not anything is too difficult for You,



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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    You will have to show me Scripture. That's the ONLY way to establish faith.
    And, in more than 60 years of intense Bible Study ... I have never found any text that clearly, simply and directly stated ANY tenet unique to trinity or oneness theories.

    πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος



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    Greetings again Apple7,
    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Incorrect. In Ezekiel, ‘The Word of God’ is recorded as speaking to Ezekiel, hundreds of times. Conversely, Ezekiel is recorded as speaking ‘The Word of God’, ZERO times.
    My understanding is that an Angel speaks to Ezekiel and also Ezekiel then speaks to the people. Both of these are the “Word of God”. There is no evidence that the “likeness of a man” enthroned in the vision of Ezekiel 1 is the actual being that speaks to Ezekiel. I like the following references:
    Ezekiel 2:1–5 (KJV): 1 And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee. 2 And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me. 3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day. 4 For they are impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD. 5 And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they are a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them.
    Thus Ezekiel was sent unto Israel to speak the Words of God.

    Ezekiel 6:1–3 (KJV): 1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, set thy face toward the mountains of Israel, and prophesy against them, 3 And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places.
    It was an Angel that speaks to Ezekiel, or it is a direct revelation. And again Ezekiel was sent unto Israel to speak the Words of God.

    Ezekiel 33:30–33 (KJV): 30 Also, thou son of man, the children of thy people still are talking against thee by the walls and in the doors of the houses, and speak one to another, every one to his brother, saying, Come, I pray you, and hear what is the word that cometh forth from the LORD. 31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness. 32 And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not. 33 And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them.
    Again Ezekiel is speaking the Words of God.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post

    AT NO TIME do the Scriptures record ANY teacher in Scripture, explaining a trintarian, or oneness "Jesus" to ANY audience.
    Incorrect.

    Moses was Trinitarian.

    He wrote about, and worshiped, a Triune Creator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again Apple7, My understanding is that an Angel speaks to Ezekiel and also Ezekiel then speaks to the people. Both of these are the “Word of God”. There is no evidence that the “likeness of a man” enthroned in the vision of Ezekiel 1 is the actual being that speaks to Ezekiel. I like the following references:
    Ezekiel 2:1–5 (KJV): 1 And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee. 2 And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me. 3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day. 4 For they are impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD. 5 And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they are a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them.


    Kind regards
    Trevor
    Incorrect.

    Once again, you ignore context.

    The original Hebrew did NOT contain 'chapters', and was a continuous stream of characters.

    Thus, we must include the end of 'chapter' one in the context, as thus...

    And from above the expanse that was over their heads was an appearance like a stone of lapis lazuli azure blue, the likeness of a throne. And on the likeness of the throne was a likeness in appearance like a man on it from above. And I saw Him, like the color of polished bronze, looking like fire within it all around. From the appearance of His loins and upward, and from the appearance of His loins and downward, I saw Him looking like fire; and brightness to it all around. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of the rain, so appeared the brightness all around. This was the appearance of the likeness of The Glory of Yahweh(SON). And I saw, and I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of One speaking. Eze 1.26 - 28)


    The 'Word of God' is thus confirmed to be The Son.

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    Greetings again Apple7,
    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Incorrect. Moses was Trinitarian. He wrote about, and worshiped, a Triune Creator.
    Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV): Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
    Mark 12:28–34 (KJV): 28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. 34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.

    Do you believe that the Scribe who studied Moses’ writings, believed in the Trinity after this encounter?

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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