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Thread: Why Was Paul Baptized With Water?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    All you do is make false accusations ...
    Says the ONE who makes more than all of us put together. We have them on record, Jerry, so you'd best try a different road for awhile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Bad boy Jerry, going back on your word.
    Jerry changes his mind once he cools down.

    Why did those of Israel need to repent AND be baptized with water? Why is there only ONE non-water baptism for the body of Christ?

    Things that differ are not the same!
    Yep, different households.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Yep, different households.
    Since you know so much about households then it will be an easy thing for you to explain why the household of the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works despite the fact that the Lord Jesus said the following to them:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life"
    (Jn.6:47).

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

    According to you the Lord Jesus' words were not sufficient to result in spiritual life to the household of the Jews who lived under the law because they could not be saved until they believed and then did works.

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    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Prove that I lied! All you do is make false accusations against me in the hope that no one will notice that you really have no answer to the Scriptures which contradict your ideas.
    I already showed the post where you said you had nothing more to say and THEN a post where you said more

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So you must agree with the idea that when Paul was baptized with water that baptism was unnecessary?
    Yep. It's clear from the fullness of all scripture put together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You must also agree with the idea put forth on this thread that when Paul baptized believers that baptism was unnecessary!
    Was it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I am sure that you think that the gospel which was promised in the OT is the same gospel which was kept secret since the world began.
    You're LYING again Jerry.

    Just LOOK (for a change) at my SIGNATURE and you'll SEE this:
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Since you know so much about households then it will be an easy thing for you to explain why the household of the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works despite the fact that the Lord Jesus said the following to them:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life"
    (Jn.6:47).

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

    According to you the Lord Jesus' words were not sufficient to result in spiritual life to the household of the Jews who lived under the law because they could not be saved until they believed and then did works.
    You're becoming a thread pest.

    Was it sufficient for the Jews to merely look at the serpent on the pole? Was following the Law no longer required of them? Jesus pointed you to that example, but you refuse to believe Him. In fact, you refuse to believe many things our Lord said.

    You refuse to believe Him when He says to keep His commandments, to teach obedience to the Law, to forgive in order to be forgiven. You, Jerry, are a cherry picker, and not a very good one at that.

    Working righteousness in order to be accepted by God is from the beginning. Obedience always came first, even with Abraham, the Father of Faith.

    Genesis 12:1 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

    When Jesus spoke to the Jews, He was speaking to those of the Circumcision....obedience to the Law was understood by everyone but you, Jerry. Just because obedience wasn't mentioned in one particular verse you have gotten hung up on, doesn't mean it isn't there (understood by those addressed and the one addressing them).

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    When Jesus spoke to the Jews, He was speaking to those of the Circumcision....obedience to the Law was understood by everyone but you, Jerry. Just because obedience wasn't mentioned in one particular verse you have gotten hung up on, doesn't mean it isn't there (understood by those addressed and the one addressing them).
    This is what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the law:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

    What the Lord said here is either true or it is false. I say that His words did indeed bring spiritual life to the Jews who believed and lived under the law.

    You say that His words are false because according to you His words by themselves cannot bring spiritual life to the Jews who lived under the law because they could not be saved apart from works.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Just LOOK (for a change) at my SIGNATURE and you'll SEE this:
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.
    Then when and to whom did Paul preach the following gospel?:

    "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Ro.1:1-3).
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; March 5th, 2019 at 04:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    This is what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the law:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

    What the Lord said here is either true or it is false. I say that His words did indeed bring spiritual life to the Jews who believed and lived under the law.

    You say that His words are false because according to you His words by themselves cannot bring spiritual life to the Jews who lived under the law because they could not be saved apart from works.
    YELLOW - What a childish thing for you to say, Jerry.

    RED - You don't know the meaning of the word AND?

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    YELLOW - What a childish thing for you to say, Jerry.

    RED - You don't know the meaning of the word AND?
    A person who understands English knows that what the Lord Jesus said here to the Jews who lived under the law was either true or false:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

    This is not a conditional statement because no conditions are named.

    The only place the word "and" is found in that verse is in your imagination!

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Then when and to whom did Paul preach the following gospel?:

    "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Ro.1:1-3).
    Why don't you just ask if the Law and Prophets ever spoke of the Gospel of Grace without the works of the law?

    Maybe you'd get a response, since you clearly have doubts on the subject of the two different Gospels.



    The fact that you're the confused one here is becoming clearer with each passing day.
    Just admit you're not sure, and would like some input.
    How hard is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You say that His words are false because according to you His words by themselves cannot bring spiritual life to the Jews who lived under the law because they could not be saved apart from works.
    Here are some of His words:

    Mat 19:16-17 KJV And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? (17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    All of my ancestors are human.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    A person who understands English knows that what the Lord Jesus said here to the Jews who lived under the law was either true or false:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

    This is not a conditional statement because no conditions are named.

    The only place the word "and" is found in that verse is in your imagination!
    You used the word AND, Jerry. Don't tell me you didn't. I even put it in red.

    No one is saying our Lord's words are not true. It's your interpretation of what He's saying that is causing this problem. Which words is He referring to? His words about keeping the commandments? Which words do you claim give life, Jerry?


    If I say you have to clean your room, does that exclude your having to enter your room first?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Here are some of His words:

    Mat 19:16-17 KJV And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? (17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    There you go.

    Jerry isn't interested in those words, though, is he? He wants to put those who lived under the Law under Grace, but he can't quite pull that off, can he?

    Galatians 5:1-3 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    No one is saying our Lord's words are not true. It's your interpretation of what He's saying that is causing this problem. Which words is He referring to? His words about keeping the commandments? Which words do you claim give life, Jerry?
    His words which He spoke to the Jews when He said He is the Christ:

    "Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me"
    (Jn.10:24-25).

    The Lord Jesus said He is the Christ and He said that He is the Son of God (Jn.10:36). Those who believed Him were born of God and received spiritual life:

    "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"
    (1 Jn.5:1-5).

    "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name"
    (Jn.20:30-31).

    Again, the following statement of the Lord Jesus spoken to those who lived under the law was an "unconditional" statement:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life"
    (Jn.6:63).

    What the Lord Jesus said there is either true or false. I have told you exactly what His words were which brought spiritual life and so I believe that what He said is true.

    On the other hand, you say that His words by themselves were not sufficient to bring spiritual life to those who lived under the law because they couldn't be made alive spiritually apart from works.
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; March 7th, 2019 at 05:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Just LOOK (for a change) at my SIGNATURE and you'll SEE this:
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.
    Then when and to whom did Paul preach the following gospel?:

    "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Ro.1:1-3).

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