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Thread: Why Was Paul Baptized With Water?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Ananias told Saul (Paul)"why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).

    What was the purpose of this baptism?

    Was it not for the remission of sins?
    Yes it was. Absolutely. He who believes AND is baptized is saved (Mark 16:16). Not just he who believes only. St. Peter said likewise...

    [20] Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.[21] Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1 Pet. 3:20-21)

    We must be born again not just of the Spirit, but also of water...

    [5] Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

    He who believes must also have a living faith accompanied by works. (James 2:17)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherofmen View Post

    Yes it was. Absolutely. He who believes AND is baptized is saved (Mark 16:16). Not just he who believes only. St. Peter said likewise...

    [20] Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.[21] Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1 Pet. 3:20-21)

    We must be born again not just of the Spirit, but also of water...

    [5] Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

    He who believes must also have a living faith accompanied by works. (James 2:17)
    Wrongly not dividing the word of truth leads to just exactly this kind of confusion.

    Paul says that there is ONE baptism in the body of Christ and it's NOT water.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Wrongly not dividing the word of truth leads to just exactly this kind of confusion.

    Paul says that there is ONE baptism in the body of Christ and it's NOT water.
    Sure, if you want to twist the Scriptures to your own destruction. (2 Pet. 3:16), then baptism is not water. I would rather not do that. What parts of "washing away sins" and "of the like form" do you not understand?

    Also, if baptism is not administered with water according to St. Paul, then please tell me what it is and where it's found in Scripture. I need a good laugh.
    Last edited by Fisherofmen; May 28th, 2019 at 03:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherofmen View Post
    Sure, if you want to twist the Scriptures to your own destruction, then baptism is not water. I would rather not do that. What part of "of the like form" do you not understand?
    How many baptisms are there in the Bible, Fish?

    Just one? or are there multiple?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    How many baptisms are there in the Bible, Fish?

    Just one? or are there multiple?
    There is one true baptism for the remission of sins, administered with water. Now provide your evidence false prophet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherofmen View Post
    There is one true baptism for the remission of sins, administered with water.
    Sorry, that's not only incorrect, it's moving the goalposts. I asked how many baptisms there were in the Bible.

    Now provide your evidence
    You said: "There is one true baptism for the remission of sins, administered with water."

    Are the following baptisms not "true baptism"s?

    I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. - Matthew 3:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

    So where's the water in that verse?

    That verse alone proves there is more than one baptism in the Bible, not just baptism with water (which, by the way, is only SYMBOLIC, and doesn't actually cleanse one's soul; it is SYMBOLIC of the Baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT, who is most definitely not water).

    But God says "two or three witnesses establishes a matter," so here's a few more to establish the matter:

    Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, - 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2&version=NKJV

    John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance[ for the remission of sins. - Mark 1:4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...4&version=NKJV

    For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. - 1 Corinthians 12:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...3&version=NKJV

    So please, tell me. Apart from the sea Moses crossed through in Exodus which baptism was not meant for remission of sins, where is the water in those verses?

    false prophet.
    Let's avoid bearing false witness and name calling without cause (the former being a sin, and the latter being against the rules of TOL).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherofmen View Post
    Sure, if you want to twist the Scriptures to your own destruction. (2 Pet. 3:16), then baptism is not water. I would rather not do that. What parts of "washing away sins" and "of the like form" do you not understand?

    Also, if baptism is not administered with water according to St. Paul, then please tell me what it is and where it's found in Scripture. I need a good laugh.
    Neither you nor I are part of the group that Peter is in.... the nation of Israel (twelve apostles to sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of ISRAEL).

    I'm in the body of Christ and you should join me (and Paul says that WE have ONE baptism.. hint: it's found here 1 Cor 12:13).

    BTW, water baptism is in Israel's old covenant laws. That's why there is this:

    Heb 6:2 KJV Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

    Which, of course, was written to the HEBREWS.

    Laugh all that you want as you remain blind and ignorant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Neither you nor I are part of the group that Peter is in.... the nation of Israel (twelve apostles to sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of ISRAEL).

    I'm in the body of Christ and you should join me (and Paul says that WE have ONE baptism.. hint: it's found here 1 Cor 12:13).

    BTW, water baptism is in Israel's old covenant laws. That's why there is this:

    Heb 6:2 KJV Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

    Which, of course, was written to the HEBREWS.

    Laugh all that you want as you remain blind and ignorant.
    AHA! That's the verse I was looking for earlier! Thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    AHA! That's the verse I was looking for earlier! Thank you!
    You're welcome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Sorry, that's not only incorrect, it's moving the goalposts. I asked how many baptisms there were in the Bible.
    Your question is irrelevant. The topic was whether or not baptism with water was salvific. I answered that question in the affirmative with multiple Scripture verses. You proceeded to reject those on the basis of something St. Paul supposedly taught.


    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    You said: "There is one true baptism for the remission of sins, administered with water."

    Are the following baptisms not "true baptism"s?

    I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. - Matthew 3:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

    So where's the water in that verse?
    Again, are you trying to back up your assertion that St. Paul taught that water baptism was not salvific. If so, you failed again. Jesus also mentioned, that he had a "baptism" to undergo. (Luke 12:50) The Israelites were "baptized" in the cloud and the sea. (1 Cor. 10:2). These types of "baptisms" are METAPHORS. There is only ONE LORD, ONE FAITH AND ONE BAPTISM. (Eph 4:5). That One Baptism is of water AND the Spirit. (John 3:5) Not one OR the other. BOTH are needed. Neither are symbolic. As Peter said, "Baptism now SAVES you" it is of the "like form" of the water that saved Noe and his family.

    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    That verse alone proves there is more than one baptism in the Bible, not just baptism with water (which, by the way, is only SYMBOLIC, and doesn't actually cleanse one's soul; it is SYMBOLIC of the Baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT, who is most definitely not water).
    The Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius before baptism WHICH HE STILL NEEDED. Your argument fails as expected.
    Last edited by Fisherofmen; May 28th, 2019 at 09:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherofmen View Post
    Your question is irrelevant. The topic was whether or not baptism with water was salvific. I answered that question in the affirmative with multiple Scripture verses. You proceeded to reject those on the basis of something St. Paul supposedly taught.
    It's called rightly dividing the word of truth ... per Scripture

    You should learn about it..
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherofmen View Post
    Your question is irrelevant.
    Saying it doesn't make it so, and it is most definitely not so.

    The reason I asked the question was to determine if you knew that, as RD quoted from Hebrews, there were multiple baptisms required in the Mosaic law, and that for the Jews, following and keeping the Mosaic Law, including all of those baptisms, were salvific.

    Your answer proved that you had no idea that they existed, let alone that they were necessary for salvation.

    The topic was whether or not baptism with water was salvific.
    No. The topic of this thread was this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Ananias told Saul (Paul)"why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord" (Acts 22:16).

    What was the purpose of this baptism?

    Was it not for the remission of sins?
    And the question YOU had asked which I responded to was:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherofmen View Post
    Also, if baptism is not administered with water according to St. Paul, then please tell me what it is and where it's found in Scripture. I need a good laugh.
    Permit me to ask you one further question:

    What does Scripture record Paul as saying about baptism?

    I answered that question in the affirmative with multiple Scripture verses.
    What you did was take verses out of context to support your personal belief.

    You proceeded to reject those
    I have rejected nothing.

    on the basis of something St. Paul supposedly taught.
    Again, I ask you, if you didn't answer it above, what does SCRIPTURE record Paul saying about baptism?

    Again, are you trying to back up your assertion that St. Paul taught that water baptism was not salvific.
    That's not my assertion.

    My assertion is this:

    That water baptism is not necessary for salvation, but rather it is an OUTWARD SYMBOL of being baptised by the Holy Spirit when one becomes a Christian.

    If so, you failed again. Jesus also mentioned, that he had a "baptism" to undergo. (Luke 12:50)
    Yup.

    The Israelites were "baptized" in the cloud and the sea. (1 Cor. 10:2).
    Did I not just quote that verse?

    *checks*

    Yes, yes I did.

    And I used it to point out to you that there was more than one baptism in the bible, not just of water, which is salvific in nature.

    These types of "baptisms" are METAPHORS.
    Oh? So what are they metaphors of?

    There is only ONE LORD, ONE FAITH AND ONE BAPTISM. (Eph 4:5).
    Agreed. There is currently only one baptism, and that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit AFTER one is saved, not the cause of one's salvation.

    That One Baptism is of water AND the Spirit. (John 3:5)
    Sorry, but no.

    Spirit and water was only for Israel. Did you not ever wonder why no one questioned why John was baptising people with water? Do you think that what he was doing was something new? or was it something that was regularly practiced by those under the Mosaic law?

    Not one OR the other. BOTH are needed. Neither are symbolic.
    Not according to Paul:

    [SPOILER]For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above )or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:5-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...3&version=NKJV[SPOILER]

    As Peter said, "Baptism now SAVES you" it is of the "like form" of the water that saved Noe and his family.
    I'm not finding that phrase, Fish.

    Here is the verse you seem to be referencing:

    There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, - 1 Peter 3:21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...1&version=NKJV

    The Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius before baptism WHICH HE STILL NEEDED. Your argument fails as expected.
    Sorry, but aside from this being the fallacy of begging the question, Cornelius was saved after Israel was cut off and their 'program' put on hold. Which means that even though he was baptized in water, such a baptism wasn't salvific, only symbolic of the Holy Spirit, he was saved after the pattern of Paul, who was saved on the road to Damascus.

    So, did you answer the question I asked twice in this post?

    Here it is again, and I'll even answer it for you, just in case:

    Q: What does SCRIPTURE record Paul saying about baptism?
    A: I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other.For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. - 1 Corinthians 1:14-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...7&version=NKJV

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    My assertion is this:

    That water baptism is not necessary for salvation, but rather it is an OUTWARD SYMBOL of being baptised by the Holy Spirit when one becomes a Christian.
    I disagree. Water baptism is NOT symbolic of anything for the body of Christ and it causes nothing but chaos and confusion when attempted to be "worked into" body doctrine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I disagree. Water baptism is NOT symbolic of anything for the body of Christ and it causes nothing but chaos and confusion when attempted to be "worked into" body doctrine.
    Tis symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Tis symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.
    That's what Churchianity says, but you cannot find that in the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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