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Thread: America colonisation ‘cooled Earth's climate’

  1. #16
    LIFETIME MEMBER aCultureWarrior's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    Link please (conspiracy theories need to be backed up here).

    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    https://www.umass.edu/legal/derrico/...lord_jeff.html

    amhert's correspondence is still extant - no historian doubts its veracity
    According to your link the alleged conspiracy started in 1763 (by a British General):

    Colonel Henry Bouquet to General Amherst, dated 13 July 1763, [262k] suggests in a postscript the distribution of blankets to "inocculate the Indians";
    Amherst to Bouquet, dated 16 July 1763, [128k] approves this plan in a postscript and suggests as well as "to try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execrable Race." (This postcript spans two pages.)


    That was more than 200 years AFTER smallpox was introduced to the Americas.

    Smallpox in the New World:
    Some of the African slaves brought by Columbus to be used on the sugar plantation of the West Indies carried the smallpox virus. In 1495, fifty-seven to eighty percent of the native population of Santa Domingo, and in 1515, two-thirds of the Indians of Puerto Rico were wiped out by smallpox. Ten years after Cortez arrived in Mexico, the native population dropped from twenty-five million to six million five hundred thousand a reduction of seventy-four percent.

    … The first major outbreak of an infectious disease on the eastern coast of North America was between 1616-19. The Massachusetts and other Algonquin tribes in the area were reduced from an estimated thirty thousand to three hundred(Bray). When the Pilgrims landed in 1620, there were few Indians left to greet them. Many observers believe this infectious disease was smallpox. Researchers believe smallpox reached the Atlantic Coast of what was to become the United States either from Canada or the West Indies.
    http://thefurtrapper.com/home/indian-smallpox/
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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia



    But, that place was abandoned before Columbus sailed.

    read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Expedition

    indian villages south of my home area, rochester - in the geneseo/canandaigua area - are noted in sullivan's letters (which still exist) as being especially fertile lands, cultivated and surprisingly productive

    he noted all of this after he burned them

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post

    That was more than 200 years AFTER smallpox was introduced to the Americas.
    didn't mean to suggest otherwise - i'm sorry if you were confused by what i wrote

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    LIFETIME MEMBER aCultureWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    didn't mean to suggest otherwise - i'm sorry if you were confused by what i wrote
    So we can both agree that supposed 'modern day historians' have it wrong that British General Jeffrey Amherst was responsible for introducing smallpox to the North American Indians and you won't be linking supposed evidence saying that he did in the future?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_Expedition

    indian villages south of my home area, rochester - in the geneseo/canandaigua area - are noted in sullivan's letters (which still exist) as being especially fertile lands, cultivated and surprisingly productive

    he noted all of this after he burned them
    Hence the first case of global warming/cooling in the United States.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    So we can both agree that supposed 'modern day historians' have it wrong that British General Jeffrey Amherst was responsible for introducing smallpox to the North American Indians
    i don't know of any historian that makes that claim

    and you won't be linking supposed evidence saying that he did in the future?
    again, you appear to be confused about what i wrote

    perhaps if you go back and read it again

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    Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
    So we can both agree that supposed 'modern day historians' have it wrong that British General Jeffrey Amherst was responsible for introducing smallpox to the North American Indians

    i don't know of any historian that makes that claim
    Now that I've shown that smallpox had been in the America's over 200 years before the alleged conspiracy to infect American Indians via blankets, how about we both agree that American Indian activist Ward Churchill is bold face liar? ("Jump through some hoops" and say it).

    "Every aspect of Churchill's tale is fabricated. Between 1994 and 2003, Ward Churchill published at least six different versions of this accusation against the U.S. Army. While the Mandans and other Indians of the Upper Plains did suffer horribly from a smallpox epidemic in 1837, Churchill presents no evidence whatsoever to indicate that the infection was anything but accidental, or that the U.S. Army was in any way involved. Fort Clark was a privately owned fur trading outpost, not a military base, and there were no U.S. troops in the vicinity. The closest U.S. military unit was an eight hundred mile march away at Fort Leavenworth."
    https://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/plag/52...;view=fulltext


    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    and you won't be linking supposed evidence saying that he did in the future?

    again, you appear to be confused about what i wrote

    perhaps if you go back and read it again
    Yeah, the letter that you posted could make people believe that the American Indians really were eradicated by blankets permeated with smallpox. How about the next time you post that you put a little * next to it?

    *The above is a lie.
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    Horrible colonizers! /sarcasm
    "Prove all things. Hold fast that which is true."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    they were brutal

    we were brutal

    they had stone

    we had steel

    they took time to torture

    we tended to bulldoze right through them without stopping


    it was hundreds of years ago, they lost - time to get over it and move on
    As much as I would love to agree with you, I'm not in a politically correct mood today so I can't say that people that brought Judeo-Christian laws and culture to what is now called the United States of America were on an equal basis with a pagan people who committed all kinds of barbaric acts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Now that I've shown that smallpox had been in the America's over 200 years before
    yes, you've shown something that wasn't in dispute

    the alleged conspiracy to infect American Indians via blankets
    not alleged and not conspiracy - rather a military decision by Amherst to reduce his opponent's numbers with any means available, captured in his hand in the original documentation and disputed by no historian i know of

    , how about we both agree that American Indian activist Ward Churchill is bold face liar? ("Jump through some hoops" and say it).
    i don't know who ward churchill is and i'm not interested in learning about him




    Yeah, the letter that you posted could make people believe that the American Indians really were eradicated by blankets permeated with smallpox.
    people suffering from a staggeringly high degree of mental retardation, perhaps

    How about the next time you post that you put a little * next to it?

    *The above is a lie.
    i don't usually tailor my writing to the potential intellectual deficiencies of my audience - i usually assume they're fairly intelligent

    but i'll try to keep you in mind next time

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    .. I can't say that (european colonizers) were on an equal basis with (native americans)

    me neither - the ability of the european colonizers to wage war and their will and determination to push through to victory were far superior
    Last edited by ok doser; February 2nd, 2019 at 05:21 PM.

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    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    As much as I would love to agree with you, I'm not in a politically correct mood today so I can't say that people that brought Judeo-Christian laws and culture to what is now called the United States of America were on an equal basis with a pagan people who committed all kinds of barbaric acts.

    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    me neither - the ability of the european colonizers to wage war and their will and determination to push through to victory were far superior
    That a boy, I knew I could get you to come out and be a ferocious defender of your people.

    That being said: Scalping has a whole new meaning these days:

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    me neither - the ability of the european colonizers to wage war and their will and determination to push through to victory were far superior
    When one group has guns, steel, and horses, and another group does not the outcome is predictable. The European colonizers had the will, motivation, and desire to conquer an entire continent. Two actually. And that's exactly what they did. This part of history has always fascinating me. The Puritans than came to America is a fascinating story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Berean View Post
    When one group has guns, steel, and horses, and another group does not the outcome is predictable. The European colonizers had the will, motivation, and desire to conquer an entire continent. Two actually. And that's exactly what they did. This part of history has always fascinating me. The Puritans than came to America is a fascinating story.
    The natives shot themselves in the foot by maintaining their ancient grudges that they all held against each other. If they had instead joined forces, they could have mounted a serious defense, but since they insisted on not cooperating with each other, they basically did the 'divide' part of 'divide and conquer' for us. I would say that given that, plus all what you said, made the outcome predictable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Berean View Post
    When one group has guns, steel, and horses, and another group does not the outcome is predictable.
    You're right. But that's only part of it. Jared Diamond lists some of the major geographic reasons that the peoples of Eurasia overcame the peoples in the Americas:

    Guns, Germs, and Steel makes a compelling case for the reasons why Eurasians had better immunity, better technology, and mounted troops that insured the defeat of American societies.
    https://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-St...erms+and+steel
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