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Thread: Argument supporting existence of a God

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    matter and energy cannot travel faster than light

    Exceeding the Speed of Light Possible in a Quantum Experiment

    Since 2000 we have known that light itself doesn’t maintain a constant speed in a vacuum. Experiments back then, at Princeton’s NEC Laboratory, used lasers to produce faster-than-light-speed pulses by passing a beam through a specially constructed chamber containing cesium gas. A 3-microsecond pulse of light which normally would take 0.2 nanoseconds to make it from one end of the chamber to the other, emerged 62 nanoseconds earlier than if it had passed through a vacuum. The phenomenon observed was called anomalous dispersion and attributed to the effect of the cesium gas within the chamber. And what it showed is that light can move faster than the supposed speed limit of approximately 300,000 kilometers (186,000 miles) per second.

    At the time of the release of the Princeton Lab findings, the head researcher for the experiment, Dr. Liujun Wang, stated that “Our experiment shows that the generally held misconception that nothing can move faster than the speed of light, is wrong. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity still stands, however, because it is still correct to say that information cannot be transmitted faster than the vacuum speed of light.”

    But hold on. Enter quantum physics. In experimental results published on February 8, 2018, in the Journal of Physical Review Letters, in an article entitled, “Two-Way Communication with a Single Quantum Particle,” two quantum physicists, Jinyang Liang and Lihong V. Wang, from the Unversity of Vienna, demonstrate that quantum systems can surpass the speed limit of light.

    Their experiment involves the exchange of a single quantum particle (a photon) by two individuals at the same time with both in receipt of the results in half the normal time of a transmission traveling at the speed of light.

    Why is it even possible to exceed the speed of light by double? Because of quantum superposition. That is the single photon each participant in the experiment sends gets canceled or transposed at the same time. The end result, the single photons end up in two places simultaneously.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    There was no "material" or "physical" realm before God's utterance.
    I don't believe there was any time, either.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

  3. #33
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SabathMoon View Post
    Wrong! It limits the speed of matter, and some think light doesn't travel but just is. Light can't "travel" through a solid object the way that sound can either.
    There is exactly zero doubt that light travels. It's speed has been DIRECTLY measured multiple times.

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post

    Exceeding the Speed of Light Possible in a Quantum Experiment

    Since 2000 we have known that light itself doesn’t maintain a constant speed in a vacuum. Experiments back then, at Princeton’s NEC Laboratory, used lasers to produce faster-than-light-speed pulses by passing a beam through a specially constructed chamber containing cesium gas. A 3-microsecond pulse of light which normally would take 0.2 nanoseconds to make it from one end of the chamber to the other, emerged 62 nanoseconds earlier than if it had passed through a vacuum. The phenomenon observed was called anomalous dispersion and attributed to the effect of the cesium gas within the chamber. And what it showed is that light can move faster than the supposed speed limit of approximately 300,000 kilometers (186,000 miles) per second.

    At the time of the release of the Princeton Lab findings, the head researcher for the experiment, Dr. Liujun Wang, stated that “Our experiment shows that the generally held misconception that nothing can move faster than the speed of light, is wrong. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity still stands, however, because it is still correct to say that information cannot be transmitted faster than the vacuum speed of light.”

    But hold on. Enter quantum physics. In experimental results published on February 8, 2018, in the Journal of Physical Review Letters, in an article entitled, “Two-Way Communication with a Single Quantum Particle,” two quantum physicists, Jinyang Liang and Lihong V. Wang, from the Unversity of Vienna, demonstrate that quantum systems can surpass the speed limit of light.

    Their experiment involves the exchange of a single quantum particle (a photon) by two individuals at the same time with both in receipt of the results in half the normal time of a transmission traveling at the speed of light.

    Why is it even possible to exceed the speed of light by double? Because of quantum superposition. That is the single photon each participant in the experiment sends gets canceled or transposed at the same time. The end result, the single photons end up in two places simultaneously.

    Like I said, do yourself a favor and stop propogating this until you investigate it more thoroughly.

    Just is this brief article there's a direct contradiction...

    Dr. Liujun Wang, stated that “Our experiment shows that the generally held misconception that nothing can move faster than the speed of light, is wrong. Einstein’s Theory of Relativity still stands, however, because it is still correct to say that information cannot be transmitted faster than the vacuum speed of light.”
    Both can't be true! The location of a light photon is information. If the photon moves faster than c then the only way you could know that is if the information moved faster than c. Something is wrong with the experiment.

    Further, quantum entanglement has nothing whatsoever to do with the speed of light or any other speed. There is a very real sense in which enatangled particles are in more than one place at the same time. I have no idea how that works or what's actually happening but the point is that nothing has to travel anywhere and so no speed limit comes into it.


    If you understood anything about the science behind why c is the speed limit, you'd drop this. It's not as bad as propogating the idea that the Earth is flat but it is the same type of error.
    Please watch that video I posted.

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    There is exactly zero doubt that light travels. It's speed has been DIRECTLY measured multiple times.
    I remember calculating it in the lab from experiments using raman spectroscopy- it was a staple of first year physics

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post

    Exceeding the Speed of Light Possible in a Quantum Experiment

    ... the supposed speed limit of approximately 300,000 kilometers (186,000 miles) per second....

    Does anyone find it suspicious that this means that light emitted from the sun, takes just about exactly 500 seconds to get here? (The average distance from the sun to the earth during our annual orbit is about 93 million miles, which is 500 times the speed of light in miles per second.) Coincidence I guess, but it's somewhat remarkable that it's such a round number. To put it another way, if we could see the earth from the sun, all the light of that image of our planet is sunlight reflected back, and the round trip, is 1,000 seconds even. It's a bit remarkable to me.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    There is exactly zero doubt that light travels. It's speed has been DIRECTLY measured multiple times.
    With a different number every time the speed of light has been measured.

    A Brief History of the Speed of Light

    “If not instantaneous, it is extraordinarily rapid,” Galileo concluded, estimating that light travels at about ten times the speed of sound.

    Over the ensuing centuries, many other scientists improved upon Galileo’s work by devising ingenious new methods for measuring the speed of light. Their results fell between 200,000 kilometers per second, recorded in 1675 by Ole Roemer, who made his measurement by studying eclipse patterns in Jupiter’s moons, and 313,000 kilometers per second, recorded in 1849 by Hippolyte Louis Fizeau, who sent light through a rotating tooth wheel and then reflected it back with a mirror. The current accepted value is 299,792.458 kilometers per second, or 669,600,000 miles per hour.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
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  11. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    quantum entanglement has nothing whatsoever to do with the speed of light or any other speed.
    Actually, the quantum field has everything to do with the speed of light and how fast matter can travel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    I have no idea how that works or what's actually happening but the point is that nothing has to travel anywhere and so no speed limit comes into it.
    If you have no idea how it works, then you should stop trying to tell me to drop this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    If you understood anything about the science behind why c is the speed limit, you'd drop this.
    The science behind c being the speed of light is tied up in Newtonian and Einsteinian physics.
    Quantum physics does not have the same rules as Newtonian and Einsteinian physics.

    Light (photons) behaves like both an atomic particle and like a wave (wave–particle duality).
    Subatomic particles have the same kind of wave-particle duality as photons.

    The limit to the speed of light is a property of wave propagation through the quantum field.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    Does anyone find it suspicious that this means that light emitted from the sun, takes just about exactly 500 seconds to get here? (The average distance from the sun to the earth during our annual orbit is about 93 million miles, which is 500 times the speed of light in miles per second.) Coincidence I guess, but it's somewhat remarkable that it's such a round number. To put it another way, if we could see the earth from the sun, all the light of that image of our planet is sunlight reflected back, and the round trip, is 1,000 seconds even. It's a bit remarkable to me.
    but the second is a human construct - it's not tied to any natural phenomena

    did the jews or romans divide the day into 24 hours?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    but the second is a human construct - it's not tied to any natural phenomena
    Right, so why should it just so happen that it takes 1,000 seconds exactly for light to travel from the sun to the earth and back? It's just ... too 'nice' of a round number for me, to not be a little suspicious that ... idk. That we somehow are going in a circle somehow.
    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    did the jews or romans divide the day into 24 hours?
    idk. Who then divided hours into minutes, and then minutes into seconds?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    did the jews or romans divide the day into 24 hours?

    John 11:9
    9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.


    Jesus said there are twelve hours from sunrise to sunset.
    Learn to read what is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    John 11:9
    9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.


    Jesus said there are twelve hours from sunrise to sunset.


    i wonder how far back that can be traced ....... wiki sez 24the century bc, ancient egyptians

  17. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    With a different number every time the speed of light has been measured.

    A Brief History of the Speed of Light

    “If not instantaneous, it is extraordinarily rapid,” Galileo concluded, estimating that light travels at about ten times the speed of sound.

    Over the ensuing centuries, many other scientists improved upon Galileo’s work by devising ingenious new methods for measuring the speed of light. Their results fell between 200,000 kilometers per second, recorded in 1675 by Ole Roemer, who made his measurement by studying eclipse patterns in Jupiter’s moons, and 313,000 kilometers per second, recorded in 1849 by Hippolyte Louis Fizeau, who sent light through a rotating tooth wheel and then reflected it back with a mirror. The current accepted value is 299,792.458 kilometers per second, or 669,600,000 miles per hour.

    Regardless, the point is that it travels. The notion that it doesn't travel is simply false.

    Further, the variation in the measurments of c are within a margin of error depending on the meathod used. But I have heard about good evidence that c is decaying. Although no such decay can possibly be detected any longer because of the way units of measure are now defined with c as an inherent part of the definition. A meter, for example, is defined as the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum in 1 / 299,792,458 seconds. A second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom (Subatomic systems are subject to relativistic effects which would effect the measured speed of light).

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    The notion that it doesn't travel is simply false.
    I have never claimed that light doesn't travel.
    I have only claimed that it is not true that nothing can travel faster than the currently measured speed of light in a vacuum.
    Learn to read what is written.

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Actually, the quantum field has everything to do with the speed of light and how fast matter can travel.
    Perhaps but quantum entanglement does not.
    Once again, the idea is that the particles somehow exist in two places at once. There is nothing traveling and thus no speed limit is broken.

    If you have no idea how it works, then you should stop trying to tell me to drop this.
    Whether or not I understand what's happening with quantum entanglement doesn't mean I don't understand why light cannot travel faster than it does nor can anything else.

    You don't have to drop it if you don't want to but you're just flatly wrong and anyone who understands the science even a little bit not only is going to know you're wrong but is going to sort of be laughing at you.

    You do what you want.

    The science behind c being the speed of light is tied up in Newtonian and Einsteinian physics.
    It has been DIRECTLY MEASURED! It is not merely theoretical or mathematically derived. Once again, it has been directly measured and done so in a whole variety of ways. They bounce lasers off mirrors on the Moon. They've bounced microwaves off the surface of Venus. They send data back and forth between space probes on or at several planets and even beyond the solar system. Even the communications between Houston and the Apollo missions had delays related to the speed of light (radio waves). And there are perhaps dozens of other ways that the speed of light as been directly measured over literally hundreds of years. It is very simply not a mere mathematical constant or theoretical construct.

    Quantum physics does not have the same rules as Newtonian and Einsteinian physics.

    Light (photons) behaves like both an atomic particle and like a wave (wave–particle duality).
    Subatomic particles have the same kind of wave-particle duality as photons.
    No kidding.

    The limit to the speed of light is a property of wave propagation through the quantum field.
    This is something of a tautology. Light IS a wave propagation. The speed of that wave has nothing to do with the wave itself.

    PLEASE WATCH THAT VIDEO I POSTED!!!

    PLEASE!

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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