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Thread: Argument supporting existence of a God

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    You just demonstrated your unsupportable bias. Case closed.
    congratulations!

    You win!


    now go away

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  3. #272
    Over 1500 post club Idolater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Now test that against the scriptures of the Koran.
    Does the evidence concur with one another?
    I didn't provide Scripture as proof of the Resurrection of Christ being nonfiction historical fact. I instead tackled all the death that surrounded the beginning of the Church. It was all what would today be called 'suicide by cop.' They were lynched sometimes, but usually officially executed (often with a lot of torture before their final coup de grace).

    All these earliest Christians had to do was confess that the Resurrection was a hoax, and we don't have any record where any of them did that, and instead, even as it became more and more dangerous to be a Christian, they doubled down on their bets.

    They behaved like people who knew something. They did not behave like people who weren't 100% certain. Unless of course, they were all involved in a suicide pact.

    And if that's what we're saying happened instead of the Resurrection of Christ, then we still need to explore why the suicide pact. What was the goal of the suicide pact? What did they hope to bring about with their deaths?

    And then the alternative is that the Resurrection actually occurred, and this is where we must objectively ask ourselves, if it did occur, what would we expect to see, as proof? There weren't any cellphone cameras. What would we expect to see?

    For my money, we would Hope to see what we do see, we would Hope that many people who claimed to see the risen Lord, were put to the test in the most extreme way, and that's exactly what happened, and as far as we can tell, every single one of them passed the test that the Resurrection is nonfiction historical fact.

    Unless it was a suicide pact. And again, for my money, the Resurrection of Christ seems more likely than that it was all part of a pretty large suicide pact.

    If you think I've employed something like 'faith based evidence' in this reasoning, please let me know and point it out?
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

  4. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    That would only be true if I were unable to factually support those claims.
    Yet, you can't ....objectively. Your world view is formed and identified by scripture and scripture is merely hearsay no matter how strongly you're emotionally attached to it.

    It is not "biased" to say, believe and support reality.
    But it is biased to claim Christian beliefs as exclusive to this reality.

    No amount of baiting is going to get me to jump ahead, quip. Try as you might, I will not debate Chrisianity with you.
    I have no desire to debate Christianity (per se) with you...the subject has been debated ad nauseum and will continue to be debated.Nor am I claiming Christianity as necessarily false.


    This thread is about the existence of God and we have to get that question answered before we move on to who's worshiping the real One.
    Have you considered that ALL religions hint at something spiritually inscrutable? Or do you find solace "knowing" whose wrong and who's right...and righteously drawing those pious lines in the sand?

    I am a Christian on a Christian theology debate forum and so I am not afraid nor ashamed of the fact that I am arguing from the Christian perspective. You are trying desperately to claim that I am, in effect, begging the question and trying to make a Christian argument in favor of God but I have not done that. Making the claim that Christianity is the only rationally sound worldview is a claim, not an argument. I can support that claim, as I said a moment ago, but I am not going to do that yet - if at all. We've neither reached that point in the debate nor have you earned the right to such pearls of information.
    It's this very self-righteous arrogance that's key to your bias (and my motivations!). Plus the "you're too simple (or evil, non-elect...etc.) to fathom the depths of the Christian religion/God"... is as old and trite as the religion itself.

    In fact, you have not permitted the progression of this discussion far enough for ANY argument on the affirmative side. You have not engaged the debate at all! I have made one single claim in relation to the question "Does God exist?" You have never offered a single response and now you're claiming to believe that God does exist. It is seeming more and more that it is not possible to have a rational discussion with you. No one can stay on course because you don't know what you're even trying to argue about!

    Clete
    Same old religious chest-thumping.
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Yet, you can't ....objectively. Your world view is formed and identified by scripture and scripture is merely hearsay no matter how strongly you're emotionally attached to it.


    But it is biased to claim Christian beliefs as exclusive to this reality.


    I have no desire to debate Christianity (per se) with you...the subject has been debated ad nauseum and will continue be debated.Nor am I claiming Christianity as necessarily false.




    Have you considered that ALL religions hint at something spiritually inscrutable? Or do you find solace "knowing" whose wrong and who's right...and righteous upon drawing those pious lines in the sand?



    It's that very self-righteous arrogance that's key to your bias (and my motivations!). Plus the "you're too simple (or evil, non-elect...etc.) to fathom the depths of the Christian religion/God"... is as old and trite as the religion itself.



    Same old religious chest-thumping.
    awesome dude - you managed to insult Christianity and/or clete personally seven times

    which is, of course, why you're here

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    congratulations!

    You win!


    now go away
    Geeez. I hope you're not butt-hurt again?
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    awesome dude - you managed to insult Christianity and/or clete personally seven times

    which is, of course, why you're here
    You're free to bow out at any time buttercup.
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

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  12. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    I didn't provide Scripture as proof of the Resurrection of Christ being nonfiction historical fact. I instead tackled all the death that surrounded the beginning of the Church. It was all what would today be called 'suicide by cop.' They were lynched sometimes, but usually officially executed (often with a lot of torture before their final coup de grace).

    All these earliest Christians had to do was confess that the Resurrection was a hoax, and we don't have any record where any of them did that, and instead, even as it became more and more dangerous to be a Christian, they doubled down on their bets.

    They behaved like people who knew something. They did not behave like people who weren't 100% certain. Unless of course, they were all involved in a suicide pact.

    And if that's what we're saying happened instead of the Resurrection of Christ, then we still need to explore why the suicide pact. What was the goal of the suicide pact? What did they hope to bring about with their deaths?

    And then the alternative is that the Resurrection actually occurred, and this is where we must objectively ask ourselves, if it did occur, what would we expect to see, as proof? There weren't any cellphone cameras. What would we expect to see?

    For my money, we would Hope to see what we do see, we would Hope that many people who claimed to see the risen Lord, were put to the test in the most extreme way, and that's exactly what happened, and as far as we can tell, every single one of them passed the test that the Resurrection is nonfiction historical fact.

    Unless it was a suicide pact. And again, for my money, the Resurrection of Christ seems more likely than that it was all part of a pretty large suicide pact.

    If you think I've employed something like 'faith based evidence' in this reasoning, please let me know and point it out?
    The same religious fervor and devotion straps bombs to suicidal Islamic fundamentalist. Nothing original here.
    _/\_

    Christians: "I - a stranger and afraid - in a world I never made.." -- Houseman

  13. #278
    Silver Member Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    Yet, you can't ....objectively.
    Saying it doesn't make it so.

    Your world view is formed and identified by scripture and scripture is merely hearsay no matter how strongly you're emotionally attached to it.
    Here you go accusing me of question begging - again. It isn't me doing the question begging, it's you.

    But it is biased to claim Christian beliefs as exclusive to this reality.
    No it isn't.

    Is it biased to claim that the sky is blue on Earth?
    Is it biased to believe that objects fall to the ground when dropped?
    Is it biased to claim that American capitalism is directly responsible for lifting more people out of poverty than any other economic system that has ever existed?

    It is not biased to claim the truth of reality.

    I have no desire to debate Christianity (per se) with you...the subject has been debated ad nauseum and will continue to be debated.Nor am I claiming Christianity as necessarily false.
    You are schizophrenic!

    First we're discussing whether God exists or not and then you claim that you believe that God does exist. Then you basically ask me to establish my claim that Christianity is true and now you don't want to debate Christianity nor really claim that it's "necessarily false".

    What the heck are we talking about then? You tell me!

    Have you considered that ALL religions hint at something spiritually inscrutable? Or do you find solace "knowing" whose wrong and who's right...and righteously drawing those pious lines in the sand?
    No need for the quotes. I do in fact know that Christianity is true and that Jesus Christ is THE ONLY way to God - period.

    It's this very self-righteous arrogance that's key to your bias (and my motivations!).
    Your claim that I'm merely biased is unfounded and your making the claim does not make it so.

    I am not one bit more "biased" in favor of Christianity than I am "biased" in my belief that the Sun rises in the East.

    Plus the "you're too simple (or evil, non-elect...etc.) to fathom the depths of the Christian religion/God"... is as old and trite as the religion itself.
    I have no doubt that you've heard such accusations your entire life.

    Same old religious chest-thumping.
    You wish this were true.

    Clete

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  15. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by quip View Post
    The same religious fervor and devotion straps bombs to suicidal Islamic fundamentalist. Nothing original here.
    Not so. It's original for you to Equate Kamikazes with innocent murder victims.
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    God says He is alive and well.

    Scripture and his acts of love and kindness in my life tell me that.

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