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Thread: Why Stop At Birth?

  1. #91
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    Crucifer thinks that a reasoned examination of facts and future potentialities will overrule panicked selfishness in the short term

    crucifer is ignorant of human psychology


    if crucifer was right, no woman would ever find herself with an unwanted pregnancy

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  3. #92
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    i can't think of a more glaring example of selfishness
    Yes, and we know that all people's conscience bears witness to the fact that having an abortion is wrong but there are many liberals who Paul describes in the following verses who give excuses for this ungodly practice:

    "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another" (Ro.2:14-15).

    Those who give excuses trying to explain why abortion is a just practice are just as guilty of those who actually have abortions for the sake of convenience.

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    So why aren't abortionists and women in prison?

    They're not laws that truly recognize it as murder. The only thing they serve is to put more punishment into any harm that comes to pregnant women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    So why aren't abortionists and women in prison?

    They're not laws that truly recognize it as murder. The only thing they serve is to put more punishment into any harm that comes to pregnant women.
    you didn't bother to read the links, did you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Yes, and we know that all people's conscience bears witness to the fact that having an abortion is wrong but there are many liberals who Paul describes in the following verses who give excuses for this ungodly practice:

    "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another" (Ro.2:14-15).

    Those who give excuses trying to explain why abortion is a just practice are just as guilty of those who actually have abortions for the sake of convenience.


    i was thinking of the same scripture when i wrote mine, jerry - "the law written on their hearts"

    1 Tim 4:2 decribes these people - seared hearts, seared consciences

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Seared conscience is right!

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    BANNED Stripe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    Even if it were possible to universally make abortion felonious, you would first need to take necessary steps toward making it so and nothing that you're talking about is of any real effect.
    Talking never achieves anything.

    All I've ever said is that abortion is murder and that the law should be enforced. I never claimed that my mere word would change the world.

    So you think it should?

    The first thing to do would be to start talking about the societal problems that come with abortion.
    Babies are murdered. What else do you want to talk about?

    Woman do not gain anything from it.
    They should lose everything for it.

    Most women will end up with a child regardless often within five years after the abortion, and along with that a huge burden of guilt after beginning motherhood.
    And you want to keep it regulated?

    All 'population control' arguments fail at the simple observation that women will have as many kids as they would have either way.
    Who is arguing for population control?

    Abortion causes bad parents in that woman are less likely to choose good partners in the first place because of the 'safety net' abortion provides; ironically in these cases women are more likely to actually make the decision to have the child than abort them though they would've likely never ended up in such a situation in the first place if they didn't have the option available
    And you want to keep childkilling regulated?

    There's a WHOLE LOT that could be taught about abortion, which would lower the abortion rate and put into society's mind another perception other than what pro-choice advocate have poured into it.
    The law is the great tutor. The state should use the law to teach.

    That's where we could start getting some traction: teaching that abortion is murder.

    Been trying that for a half a century and it's gotten nowhere.
    How do you know what one small voice in the wilderness might achieve?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Babies are murdered. What else do you want to talk about?
    The fact that you seem to be getting along okay knowing that a supposed holocaust is going on this very second.
    In truth, you don't really think it is murder.

    That's where we could start getting some traction: teaching that abortion is murder.
    You've been teaching that it's murder and it's done nothing. It didn't do anything the last 50 years, and won't for the next 50.
    Now stop trying to dodge that reality with things like this:

    How do you know what one small voice in the wilderness might achieve?
    And accept the fact that you're just blowing hot air.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    you didn't bother to read the links, did you?
    Do those places still have abortion?
    Yes?
    Then they don't really recognize killing a fetus as murder.

    A law can be dressed up to be for whatever reason; in this case it's just to give those like yourself a false sense of victory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    The fact that you seem to be getting along okay knowing that a supposed holocaust is going on this very second.
    Well, thanks for your concern over my wellbeing, but that is harldy relevant, is it?

    In truth, you don't really think it is murder.
    "I don't like this tiger, he reads minds."

    You've been teaching that it's murder and it's done nothing.
    I'm not the law, sunshine.

    You're just blowing hot air.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    The fact that you seem to be getting along okay knowing that a supposed holocaust is going on this very second.
    In truth, you don't really think it is murder.



    You've been teaching that it's murder and it's done nothing. It didn't do anything the last 50 years, and won't for the next 50.
    Now stop trying to dodge that reality with things like this:



    And accept the fact that you're just blowing hot air.
    Oh no, Stripe and his buddies do "believe" it is murder. But most of them also "believe" the universe is less than 10,000 years old. Their ability for rational thought is suspect from the jump.

  16. #102
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    THY SHALL NOT KILL
    THIS IS MURDER

  17. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwimacahau View Post
    You realize that late term abortion is sometimes medically necessary?
    That is a lie from the bowels of hell. It is never right to murder an innocent person just to save someone's life. Furthermore, the New York law allows the baby to actually be born, come totally out, and then be killed. That is outright MURDER and anyone who supports that law should rot in hell for all eternity

    "God never gives someone a gift they are not capable of receiving. If he gives us the gift of Christmas, it is because we all have the ability to understand and receive it." - Pope Francis

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
    That is a lie from the bowels of hell. It is never right to murder an innocent person just to save someone's life. Furthermore, the New York law allows the baby to actually be born, come totally out, and then be killed. That is outright MURDER and anyone who supports that law should rot in hell for all eternity
    i agree with you my friend

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    Shall we look at what the sense of the Exodus passage is?

    The Torah does not address the issue directly. The principal biblical source for Jewish law on abortion is a passage in Exodus (Exodus 21:22-23) concerning a case in which two men are fighting and injure a pregnant woman, causing her to miscarry. The verse states that if no other harm is done, the person who caused the damage must pay compensatory damages, but if there is further harm, then he should pay with his life. The common rabbinic interpretation is that if the only harm that comes to the woman is the loss of the fetus, it is treated as a case of property damage — not murder.The later rabbinic sources address the issue more directly, beginning with the Mishnah referenced above. Elsewhere, the Mishnah says that if a pregnant woman is sentenced to death, the execution can go forward provided she has not yet gone into labor, a further indication that Jewish law does not accord the fetus full human rights prior to birth.


    Source:

    Further:
    Jewish law does not share the belief common among abortion opponents that life begins at conception, nor does it legally consider the fetus to be a full person deserving of protections equal those accorded to human beings. In Jewish law, a fetus attains the status of a full person only at birth. Sources in the Talmud indicate that prior to 40 days of gestation, the fetus has an even more limited legal status, with one Talmudic authority (Yevamot 69b) asserting that prior to 40 days the fetus is “mere water.” Elsewhere, the Talmud indicates that the ancient rabbis regarded a fetus as part of its mother throughout the pregnancy, dependent fully on her for its life — a view that echoes the position that women should be free to make decisions concerning their own bodies.
    "It is in love that we are made, in love we disappear..."Leonard Cohen

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