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Thread: Why Stop At Birth?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    Why even have these conversations.
    in the case of this thread?

    to call attention to a new law in my state and my scumbag governor (who probably will run for prez next year)
    Last edited by ok doser; January 30th, 2019 at 01:26 AM.

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  3. #62
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    The only thing dumb is condemning everything because it's a lazy way of fueling your self-righteousness instead of doing things that matter.

    I've seen this subject go literally nowhere in the past eight years here.
    It's just (outcry about something) followed by 'abortion is murder' followed by (statement that is actually interesting) followed by (insert dead fetus).
    Then repeat.
    Good Golly....join the rest of the world.


    Or just stop being so quick to judge. You have no answers yourself.

    Why don't we just stop discussing anything since we can't do a darn thing?

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    ini the case of this theead?

    to call attention to a new law in my state and my scumbag governor (who probably will run for prez next year)
    Big whoop, you expect everyone to martyr their selves over it? I wouldn't bend to a church either whether I believed in it or not, that's not how you govern anything. Even Kennedy told Catholics to back off.

  6. #64
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    ini the case of this theead?

    to call attention to a new law in my state and my scumbag governor (who probably will run for prez next year)
    There ya go....an actual reason to have the freedom of speech.


    Can't shut us down, Crucifer etal.

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  8. #65
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    Big whoop, you expect everyone to martyr their selves over it? I wouldn't bend to a church either whether I believed in it or not, that's not how you govern anything. Even Kennedy told Catholics to back off.
    Hey, great advice.....BACK OFF. Shut up. Zip it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Hey, great advice.....BACK OFF. Shut up. Zip it.
    There's a difference between 'advice' and 'demand'. What's in it for the governor, a pat on the back after he loses his office?
    And then two years later it's all for nothing anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    There's a difference between 'advice' and 'demand'. What's in it for the governor, a pat on the back after he loses his office?
    And then two years later it's all for nothing anyway
    It's called "stirring up the liberal base". Notice how stirred up they are?

    Probably not...you thought the old indian guy was calming the seas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    Big whoop, you expect everyone to martyr their selves over it?
    yes, that's exactly what i expect

    congratulations for reading my mind

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    There ya go....an actual reason to have the freedom of speech.


    Can't shut us down, Crucifer etal.
    i

    hate

    my

    sttoopid

    spellchecker!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    yes, that's exactly what i expect

    congratulations for reading my mind
    Go ask your job company if they are pro-choice and then quit. Disown any of your friends and family who are pro-choice and go live in a hole somewhere.

  17. #71
    Super Moderator JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Everything has a bottom line.

    Killing a viable baby is murder.....squirm all you want, that is the bottom line.
    There you go. Fixed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    Go ask your job company ...


    i don't have a job company

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  21. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    Cool story.
    Except only those like yourself think it is murder
    Nope. God says it, that settles it:

    “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. - Exodus 21:22-25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...5&version=NKJV

    And
    This isn't a theocracy
    No one claimed it was... What's your point?

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  23. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Nope. God says it, that settles it:

    “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. - Exodus 21:22-25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...5&version=NKJV



    No one claimed it was... What's your point?
    The passage quoted refers only to damage to the woman not the foetus. The Hebrew is quite clear.
    "It is in love that we are made, in love we disappear..."Leonard Cohen

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  24. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwimacahau View Post
    The passage quoted refers only to damage to the woman not the foetus.
    Nope. It is referring to the baby in the womb being born prematurely and then dying after.

    It's the first fetal homicide law.

    The Hebrew is quite clear.
    You're right, it is.

    But it doesn't say what you want it to say simply because you say so.

    Here's why it's talking about the baby, and not the mother:


    “If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. - Exodus 21:22-25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...5&version=NKJV
    Exodus 21:22 is the first fetal homicide law and concerns the child harmed during a separate assault. Pro-abortion theologians wrongly interpret this passage to refer to miscarriage, and only if the woman also dies is the penalty then life for life. But the passage distinguishes between the baby who survives the assault and the baby who dies. The meaning turns on whether the woman has a miscarriage or gives birth prematurely. And the Hebrew verb used is NOT that for miscarriage. Therefore the passage imposes only a fine on the criminal who accidentally causes a premature birth, but the punishment is life for life if the baby then dies. This shows that God equated the life of the unborn with that of the born, and abortion with murder. This passage, like Exodus 21:33-36, 22:5-6, and others, teaches that those who cause injury are responsible for their actions, even if the harm was unintentional. Therefore, this passage is the biblical model for any principled Unborn Victims of Crime Act. However, if the harm to the unborn in Exodus 21:22 spoke only of miscarriage, the teaching would then support legalized abortion by valuing the life of a fetus only with a fine, and only if the mother later died, would her death require taking the criminal's life. But note the word used to describe the consequence of the crime described in Exodus 21:22, "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely," the Hebrew word for miscarriage, shaw-kole, is NOT used. If the baby came out dead, a monetary fine would indicate a less than human value for the life of the fetus. (And that is exactly how the pagan Code of Hammurabi, section 209, undervalued a child.) However, because Exodus 21:22 says premature birth, and not miscarriage, the passage does not support a right to kill an unborn child, as contended by many who mistranslate this text. Rather, the text values the unborn child's life equal to that of any other person. The author Moses (Mat. 12:26) mentions the idea of a baby coming out of the womb twice within three chapters. In Exodus 23:26, he uses the Hebrew word for miscarriage, speaking of barrenness and shaw-kole (miscarriage). But the word at Exodus 21:22 is yaw-tsaw, which means to come out, come forth, bring forth, and has no connotation of death but in fact the opposite. The Hebrew Scriptures use yaw-tsaw 1,043 times beginning with Genesis 1:24 where God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature…” In Genesis and Exodus alone Moses uses this word about 150 times such as in Genesis 25 describing the births of twins Jacob and Esau. Thus the Mosaic law requires the criminal to pay financial restitution to a woman unintentionally injured by a criminal if she "gives birth prematurely." But then if that living being dies (i.e., the baby, soul, nephesh, which Hebrew word is always feminine, e.g., Lev. 19:8; Ps. 11:1) the text then applies the full Hebrew idiom which means that the punishment should fit the crime. If there is harm beyond a premature birth, and the unborn child dies, then the punishment is "life for life."


    From: http://americanrtl.org/what-does-the...rtion#Exodus21

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