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Thread: Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Neither The Holy Bible or myself said, "Out of the roots," that's your strawman. Jesus is The Root of David, being Father of all living things.
    Isa 11:1-3 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    A man.
    A descendant of Adam and Eve, Abraham, Jacob, David and David's Great (several times) granddaughter... Mary.
    Is Christ, in Himself, a created being?
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    So what do you suggest this means, GO?

    I'll tell you.

    John 1:1KJV, John 1:14KJV
    Since Jesus Christ is the Son of God (look it up), it means that the Son of God came in the flesh.

    We are to confess that Jesus is the Son of God.

    1 John 4:15
    15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.


    We are to believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

    1 John 5:5
    5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


    We are to believe the witness of God and the record that God gave of His Son, else we make God a liar.

    1 John 5:9-10
    9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
    10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.


    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    good thing you told him , I don' think he would have got it.
    Scripture doesn't say God came Himself, scripture states that God sent His only begotten Son into the world.

    1 John 4:9
    9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    is Jesus an alien or a man ?
    Scriptures state that Jesus is a man.

    1 Timothy 2:5
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


    Gentile unbelievers are aliens according to scripture.

    Ephesians 2:11-13
    11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Seeing irrelevance and seeing meaning come from one's interpretation. I believe that Jesus claimed The Title: "I Am," and also gave us insight into the meaning of This Title:
    There is no title "I Am". That's a poor translation of the Hebrew, and a deliberate distortion of the Greek by the arbitrary capatilization of "Am"... ego eimi is a common phrase as I proved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel
    "I Am The (One and Only) Way;"
    "I Am The (One and Only) Truth," and;
    "I Am The (One and Only) Life."
    Absolutely true now .... it was NOT true before Jesus was baptized.
    Job 9:31-34 Yet You would plunge me into the pit, And my own clothes would abhor me.
    32 "For He is not a man as I am that I may answer Him, That we may go to court together.
    33 "There is no umpire between us, Who may lay his hand upon us both.
    34 "Let Him remove His rod from me, And let not dread of Him terrify me.


    BUT, now there IS a mediator;


    1 Tim 2:5, 6 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

    Jesus makes it very clear;




    John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh even until now, and (now) I work.


    When Jehovah/YHVH anointed Jesus of Nazareth, and then sent him into the world, Jehovah COMMANDED Jesus to fulfill these appointed roles.

    Luke 4:16-21 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
    17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
    18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
    20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
    21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel
    Speaking to the OP: you cannot prove a negative.
    You are confused.
    The OP isn't attempting to prove that Jesus, or his God Jehovah, do not exist.
    Proving something doesn't EXIST is the fallacy called "proving a negative".
    It's EASY to prove I am NOT the King of England.
    It's EASY to prove Jesus is NOT Jehovah, but his Father IS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel
    There is PLENTY of proofs that Jesus IS God, in The Flesh! ..
    Sorry, I will stick with the "Jesus" that is actually PREACHED to every crowd in the Bible. There simply is NEVER a trinitarian/oneness "Jesus" preached to ANY group of people in the Scriptures .... never.

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Is Christ, in Himself, a created being?
    Of course.
    Christ in EVERY SENSE is a created being, Jesus is the 2nd Adam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Scriptures state that Jesus is a man.

    1 Timothy 2:5
    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


    Gentile unbelievers are aliens according to scripture.

    Ephesians 2:11-13
    11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    Jesus isn't a Gentile, he is a descendant of Abraham, Judah, David through David's descendant Mary.
    Jesus IS a man, as genuineoriginal proved.

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    Greetings MennoSota,
    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am.”
    Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I Am who I Am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I Am has sent me to you.’”
    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Nope. The verses I quoted are enough. You have shown that you refuse to believe. Turn your back on God. I shake off my sandals.
    The Yahweh Name - Initial Declaration and Fulfilment
    The following is a consideration of the Yahweh Name that was revealed in Exodus 3:14. It is hoped that the following comments will help to explain some of the language of both the OT and NT and the true role of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

    The Name of God was revealed to Moses in the following terms:
    Exodus 3:14-15 (KJV): 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

    Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense.
    Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

    The word “ehyeh” is in Exodus 3:14 is the same in the earlier statement in v12, and here the translators give the future tense:
    Exodus 3:12 (KJV): And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
    Not only does this fix the tense, it also introduces the concept that the Name of God is also associated with some future activity.

    This future tense and future activity was to be God acting to deliver Israel out of Egypt, so that Israel would become a people for His Name. They would be a living witness to the purpose of God, and a witness to the existence of God. The following passage emphasises this future work in delivering Israel with the future aspect of the Name:
    Exodus 6:1-8 (KJV): 1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH (or Yahweh) was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

    When Israel was delivered out of Egypt the Name of God remains the same, but the particular activity has been accomplished:
    Exodus 15:1-3 (KJV): 1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s' God, and I will exalt him. 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
    The future tense of God'’s Name “He will be or become” has been accomplished, and Yahweh had become Israel'’s salvation. This introduces how the Yahweh Name is a component of the Name "Jesus", Yahweh's Salvation, or He who will be salvation.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings MennoSota,
    The Yahweh Name - Initial Declaration and Fulfilment
    The following is a consideration of the Yahweh Name that was revealed in Exodus 3:14. It is hoped that the following comments will help to explain some of the language of both the OT and NT and the true role of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

    The Name of God was revealed to Moses in the following terms:
    Exodus 3:14-15 (KJV): 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

    Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense.
    Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

    The word “ehyeh” is in Exodus 3:14 is the same in the earlier statement in v12, and here the translators give the future tense:
    Exodus 3:12 (KJV): And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
    Not only does this fix the tense, it also introduces the concept that the Name of God is also associated with some future activity.

    This future tense and future activity was to be God acting to deliver Israel out of Egypt, so that Israel would become a people for His Name. They would be a living witness to the purpose of God, and a witness to the existence of God. The following passage emphasises this future work in delivering Israel with the future aspect of the Name:
    Exodus 6:1-8 (KJV): 1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH (or Yahweh) was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

    When Israel was delivered out of Egypt the Name of God remains the same, but the particular activity has been accomplished:
    Exodus 15:1-3 (KJV): 1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s' God, and I will exalt him. 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
    The future tense of God'’s Name “He will be or become” has been accomplished, and Yahweh had become Israel'’s salvation. This introduces how the Yahweh Name is a component of the Name "Jesus", Yahweh's Salvation, or He who will be salvation.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    I have no desire to excuse away what God has said. Yeshua (Jesus) unmistakably declares himself to be God. Any attempt to explain it away is merely humans rejecting God.

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    Greetings again MennoSota,
    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    I have no desire to excuse away what God has said. Yeshua (Jesus) unmistakably declares himself to be God. Any attempt to explain it away is merely humans rejecting God.
    I appreciate your response, and that you are convinced of your perspective. There are many passages that initially seem to support your view, but I suggest that Jesus claimed to be “The Son of God” and a careful consideration will help to reveal the meaning of some of the “difficult passages”. The following is a good summary of the teaching of John’s Gospel.
    John 20:30-31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again MennoSota, I appreciate your response, and that you are convinced of your perspective. There are many passages that initially seem to support your view, but I suggest that Jesus claimed to be “The Son of God” and a careful consideration will help to reveal the meaning of some of the “difficult passages”. The following is a good summary of the teaching of John’s Gospel.
    John 20:30-31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    All scripture supports my view. I am not under any compulsion to doubt what God has declared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Of course.
    Christ in EVERY SENSE is a created being, Jesus is the 2nd Adam.
    Nope!

    John 1:1-3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    The Deity of Jesus Christ
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    A created being has a beginning. Jesus has no beginning as attested by Scripture.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Nope!

    John 1:1-3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    The Deity of Jesus Christ
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    A created being has a beginning. Jesus has no beginning as attested by Scripture.
    Matthew 1:18

    Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

    The Greek word translated birth is gennessis, beginning
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    Matthew 1:18

    Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

    The Greek word translated birth is gennessis, beginning
    And where was He before His birth?

    1 John 1:1-2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    Introduction, The Incarnate Word
    1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— 2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    And where was He before His birth?

    1 John 1:1-2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
    Introduction, The Incarnate Word
    1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— 2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
    Yah alone is immortal and in the beginning begot spiritually a Son Who was then reborn into the flesh and then named YAHushua having come in His Father’s name...but He was or present tense “I am” before that even...

    Now those of us born in the flesh of one NOT begotten but created from dust can be reborn spiritually into eternity but not immortal...like our brother the begotten Son we have beginnings

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