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Thread: Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Matthew 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.


    You:When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw ..... the POWER produced by God's mind , and the wisdom and knowledge of God's mind ..... descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
    I corrected your statement of my beliefs.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    1) you haven't produced even one text that shows Jesus "RESURRECTED" himself.
    You HAVE provided one verse where Jesus promises to stand up again, after death. And now one verse where Jesus states he will take up his life again.
    John 10:1 I lay down my life, that I might take it again.We KNOW Jesus didn't kill himself, AND we KNOW that Jesus didn't resurrect himself. EVERY verse that discusses the RESURRECTION of Jesus from the dead states that his God, his Father, is who raised Jesus from the dead.
    Your take on John 2:19 KJV ("Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up") and John 10:17-18 KJV ("I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again") beggars belief imo. I don't accept it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Your misunderstanding of Jesus statements CONTRADICTS ALL of the Scriptures that actually STATE who "RESURRECTED" Jesus!
    Correct!
    Incorrect. Jesus, Jehovah, and the apostles clearly state the Father is "the ONLY true God".
    That phrase is never found in Scripture.
    IT is VERY involved! IT is Jehovah/YHVH God's own mind, and the power produced by God's mind.
    Luke 1:1 The holy spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    The Spirit is called "Him" and /or "He" in John 14:17 KJV ("it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you"), John 14:26 KJV ("he shall teach you all things"), John 15:26 KJV ("he shall testify of me"). He is not an "IT!"
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    I corrected your statement of my beliefs.
    Deception.

    No, you asserted that God's mind descended.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    HE is the ultimate king..... who sets up MANY kings;

    Dan 4:17, 25 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever He will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
    ... till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

    Jehovah also set up Jesus as king;


    Ps 2:1-9
    Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
    2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against Jehovah, and against His anointed, saying,
    3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
    4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
    5 Then shall He speak unto them in His wrath, and vex them in His sore displeasure.
    6 Yet have I set My king upon My holy hill of Zion.
    7 I will declare the decree: Jehovah hath said unto me, Thou art My son; this day have I begotten thee.
    8 Ask of Me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
    9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
    Is the Lord Jesus Christ king?Yes?

    2 Kings, you deceiver?
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Deception.

    No, you asserted that God's mind descended.
    Acts 5 KJV
    3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

    You:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to God's mind, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

    Fraud.
    Saint John W

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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Isa 42:1-8 Behold, My servant, whom I uphold; My chosen, in whom My soul delighteth: I have put My spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
    2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street.
    3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.
    4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.
    5 Thus saith God Jehovah, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth; He that spread abroad the earth and that which cometh out of it; He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
    6 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thy hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
    7 to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house.
    8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; and My glory will I not give to another, neither My praise unto graven images.

    Acts 4:24-30 And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is:
    25 who by the holy spirit, (by) the mouth of our father David thy servant, didst say, Why did the Gentiles rage, And the peoples imagine vain things?
    26 The kings of the earth set themselves in array, And the rulers were gathered together, Against the Lord, and against His Anointed:
    27 for of a truth in this city against Thy holy servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together,
    28 to do whatsoever Thy hand and Thy council foreordained to come to pass.
    29 And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness,
    30 while Thy stretchest forth Thy hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Thy holy servant Jesus.

    Evasion. You just spammed a set of verses.


    False dichotomy. He was fulfilling his role as a prophet, the prophet.

    Lay out the biblical definition of "prophet."

    I will lay out my interpretation, afterwards. Let's see what you've got.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I don't think we need anymore Anti-Christ threads around here.
    You seem to have a strange definition of "anti-christ" that is opposite from the actual meaning of the term.


    1 John 2:22
    22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.




    1 John 4:14-15
    14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
    15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

    Learn to read what is written.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    [COLOR=#0000ff]Deut 18:17-18
    It is impossible for Jesus to be "Jehovah" because Jesus is NOT the source of the words he spoke, his God is. His FATHER is Jehovah!
    No-false dichotomy. Scripture testifies that the Messiah, the Christ, would fulfill all three roles: 1.Prophet, the prophet,2. King, 3. Priest.


    Part of the definition of a prophet is "one who speaks for another"(for eg., Moses speaking on behalf of the LORD, Aaron speaking for Moses-Exodus 4:12-15 KJVV("put words in his mouth"),16("thy spokesman"); Exodus 7:1 KJV; Deuteronomy 18:18 KJV("will put my words in his mouth").

    The Lord Jesus Christ was a prophet, "the prophet": Deuteronomy. 18:15 KJV;Matthew 13:57 KJV,Matthew 21:11 KJV;Mark 6:4 KJV; Luke 1:76 KJV,Luke 4:24 KJV,Luke 7:16 KJV, Luke 24:19 KJV;John 1:45 KJV,John 4:44 KJV,John 6:14 KJV,John 7:40 KJV,John 9:17 KJV; Acts 2:30 KJV,Acts 3:22-23 KJV,Acts 7:37 KJV. The definition fits the Lord Jesus Christ's own admission:

    "Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things." John. 8:28 KJV

    "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." John. 12:49-50 KJV

    "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." John 14:10 KJV

    Thus, the Lord Jesus Christ was fulfilling His role as a/the prophet. He was speaking for His Father in Heaven-the words He spoke were His Father's words, not His(as was true for all the prophets).


    You: The prophet cannot be God!!!!

    Slower: God, and man.

    Accept it.

    Scripture further testifies:

    -Matthew:the Lord Jesus Christ presented as King(lion),

    -Mark:the Lord Jesus Christ presented as Servant(ox-notice no geneology given in Mark. Why not? This is not relevant for servants),

    -Luke: the Lord Jesus Christ presented as man,the son of man


    -John:the Lord Jesus Christ presented as the Son of God, deity(eagle)....

    Accept it.
    Saint John W

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  15. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    ..
    And this is your word, and we also have the word of the Apostles, which we receive as authoritative, as Christians. The Apostolic teachings are authoritative, and the Apostles taught the Trinity...
    Perhaps. But did the Apostle teach that these particular verses refer to the Trinity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Is the Lord Jesus Christ king?Yes?

    2 Kings, you deceiver?
    Now he'll start ignoring you, evading, distracting. Watch.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  18. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Is the Lord Jesus Christ king?Yes?

    2 Kings, you deceiver?
    How many kings are in the phrase "king of kings"?

    There are AT LEAST 3~! The word "kings" demands there are at LEAST 2, and another king that is over THEM.

    Jehovah/YHVH is the ULTIMATE "King of Kings".... because He appoints the kings .... especially His son Jesus, who God gave the throne of his father David.
    Jesus ALSO, as king of the earth, will appoint kings;
    Rev 2:26-27 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


    Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.


    Rev 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


    Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


    So, how many people will be resurrected in the 1st resurrection? They will ALL be "kings". Some will be over 5 cities, some over 10 cities, the 12 apostles will be over the 12 tribes of Israel, David will be a prince in Israel, and Jesus will be king of the planet, a king of kings, ALL worshiping Jehovah/YHVH God as the ultimate king.

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Now he'll start ignoring you, evading, distracting. Watch.
    His avatar should be:

    Saint John W

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  21. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    How many kings are in the phrase "king of kings"?
    Evasion. King of all kings, the context being, over all earthly kings-the "Big Cheese"-superior to them all...


    That is slick....Real slick....Slick as a pig, sliding down a plank.


    Now-Jehovah/YHVH God is King, King of kings. The Lord Jesus Christ is King, King of Kings.


    Two Kings?
    Saint John W

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    a shadow of things to come

    Genesis 41:40
    40 Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.


    fulfilled in Christ

    1 Corinthians 15:27
    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

    Learn to read what is written.

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    There can be only one King of Kings.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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