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Thread: Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    Dart, scripture has been shared. You reject it.
    Incorrect.
    I love Scripture, including the few that have been "shared".
    I reject the twisting of it by anyone.

    And again, another shallow retort, without even a single text that actually STATES your theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GT View Post
    ...since you admit that spirits are more than just thoughts, tell me how the Father's Spirit and Jesus' Spirit live in the saved if they are not both God.

    Don't forget, we are only given one Spirit when we are saved, but we have the Father and Jesus when we receive the Holy Spirit.
    You are confused again. What I stated is;
    .. there are SEVERAL definitions for "spirit". It depends on the context. Most of the times, in Scripture "spirit" is discussing thinking, attitude. Some times "spirit" means breath. Some times spirit means a being with a message, a messenger.

    Jesus' spirit is conformed to his God's spirit.
    The holy spirit is God's spirit. God's thinking/mind and the power produced by God's mind. So, yes they think the same. The believer then must "learn" what Christ taught, in order to acquire Christ's spirit, which has been perfectly conformed to his God's spirit.
    Eph 4:17-24
    17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind,
    18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;
    19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.
    20 But you did not learn Christ in this way,
    21 if indeed you have heard him and have been taught in him, just as truth is in Jesus,
    22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit,
    23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
    24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.


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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman
    Please deal with the text;

    John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him

    Simple, He was speaking to the Jews...to whom the commandments were given.
    It's paramount, when reading the Bible to understand what is being said, and to whom.

    In John 14 Jesus is speaking to his apostles, immediately following the "last supper".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    You are confused again. What I stated is;
    .. there are SEVERAL definitions for "spirit". It depends on the context. Most of the times, in Scripture "spirit" is discussing thinking, attitude. Some times "spirit" means breath. Some times spirit means a being with a message, a messenger.

    Jesus' spirit is conformed to his God's spirit.The holy spirit is God's spirit. God's thinking/mind and the power produced by God's mind. So, yes they think the same. The believer then must "learn" what Christ taught, in order to acquire Christ's spirit, which has been perfectly conformed to his God's spirit.
    That is not what the Bible says. The Bible says to repent and believe and then you will receive the Holy Spirit, and then live your life being transformed by the renewing of your mind.

    We don't receive the Father and Jesus' Spirit after we have lived our lives; we receive the Holy Spirit and are being transformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    You are confused again. What I stated is;
    .. there are SEVERAL definitions for "spirit". It depends on the context. Most of the times, in Scripture "spirit" is discussing thinking, attitude. Some times "spirit" means breath. Some times spirit means a being with a message, a messenger.

    Jesus' spirit is conformed to his God's spirit.The holy spirit is God's spirit. God's thinking/mind and the power produced by God's mind. So, yes they think the same. The believer then must "learn" what Christ taught, in order to acquire Christ's spirit, which has been perfectly conformed to his God's spirit.
    Jesus says that he is in the Father; from your error in your beliefs, you say God had to be conformed to Jesus' spirit.

    John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me;
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    It's paramount, when reading the Bible to understand what is being said, and to whom.

    In John 14 Jesus is speaking to his apostles, immediately following the "last supper".
    Jesus is speaking to anyone, and everyone, and whosoever, and all.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!

    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    God doesn't belong to a religion.
    Correct, the god is the god of all, and he exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Some thoughts thinking the New Testament completely applies to Amiel and not just the early church...
    The law even with Jesus Christ makes more sense, then your spiritual nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    No idea who Valentinus is, but the type of argument you are making is the logical fallacy called "poisoning the well."
    I see it on both sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    How do you think Jesus is uniquely begotten? Do you believe he was begotten first in heaven, or only called begotten as a son when he came in the flesh?
    He was the only one born of a virgin. You can argue Adam is uniquely begotten, but he isn't born of a virgin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GT View Post
    That is not what the Bible says.
    Of course it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by GT
    The Bible says to repent and believe and then you will receive the Holy Spirit, and then live your life being transformed by the renewing of your mind.

    We don't receive the Father and Jesus' Spirit after we have lived our lives; we receive the Holy Spirit and are being transformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
    Correct! The Bible says this ALSO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GT View Post
    Jesus says that he is in the Father; from your error in your beliefs, you say God had to be conformed to Jesus' spirit.

    John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me;
    You are confused. Jesus says he is "in the Father" in the same way WE can be "in the son" and "in the Father".

    1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.



    Jesus was "in the Father" because he obeyed his God perfectly, and thought like his God.
    Last edited by Dartman; February 12th, 2019 at 09:12 PM. Reason: I corrected a false statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GT View Post
    Jesus is speaking to anyone, and everyone, and whosoever, and all.
    Sure, just like every verse of the Bible is "speaking to anyone, and everyone, and whosoever, and all."

    But that's not what we were talking about.
    WE were talking about proper interpretation of CONTEXT, by observing these points; To whom is this being spoken, What is the topic, Who is speaking, etc.
    In the context of John 13-16, Jesus is talking to the apostles directly. Jesus' statements regarding his COMMANDMENTS utterly disproves your theory about "Law" in the NT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
    He is the radiance of the glory of God...
    Good post, MennoSota.

    Notice that, according to Arius'/Dartman's false claim that God the Father CREATED God the Son (which claim implies that "There was a time when the Son was NOT"), there must have been a time when "the radiance of the glory of God was NOT". So, according to Arianism, God the Father CREATED the radiance of the glory of God; a mere CREATURE is the radiance of the glory of God the Father. What a pathetic, and blasphemous depiction of God the Father!

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Yet, you keep doing it over and over.

    Then stop being a fool.

    You are being a fool.
    Why can't you answer the question I asked you?

    I asked you:

    Is THE ruler of all of Egypt EQUAL TO THE ruler of all of Egypt? Yes or No?

    I did not ask you:

    "Is THE [one and only] ruler of all of Egypt EQUAL TO THE [one and only] ruler of all of Egypt? Yes or No?"

    Why can you not answer the question I asked you?

    So, now, you have TWO questions to stonewall against:

    1. MY question: Is THE ruler of all of Egypt EQUAL TO THE ruler of all of Egypt? Yes or No?

    AND

    2. YOUR question: Is THE [one and only] ruler of all of Egypt EQUAL TO THE [one and only] ruler of all of Egypt? Yes or No?

    Here is another fun question for you:

    Is THE ruler of all of Egypt THE ruler of all of Egypt? Yes or No?

    Have fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    John 9:35-38
    35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
    36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
    37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
    38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.


    Jesus was worshiped as lord, not as God.
    Why don't you try to explain what (if anything) you imagine it is to "worship someone as lord", and what (if anything) you imagine it is to "worship someone as God"? Precisely state what (if anything) you think is the difference between "worshiping someone as God" and "worshiping someone as lord".

    Actually, in the text you quoted, we find neither the phrase "worshiped him as lord", nor the phrase "worshiped him as God". Instead, we read that the man called Jesus "Lord", and that "he worshiped him".

    Would you please cite, from the Bible, where (if anywhere) you imagine you find that persons/places/things that are NOT God ought to be worshiped?

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