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Thread: Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    Simple enough.

    The NT writers applied the LXX style, as translated from Exo 3.14, and applied it to Jesus - thus confirming His deity.
    So let me get this straight. You think the name YHWH means he-is. Of which it doesn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SabathMoon View Post
    So let me get this straight. You think the name YHWH means he-is. Of which it doesn't.
    We are not discussing the Tetragrammaton, however, here is the lexical definition...

    יְהוָה = “Yahweh”

    “Yahweh” definition:

    H3068 Singular noun. The Tetragrammaton YHWH, the Lord, or Yahweh, the personal name of God and His most frequent designation in scripture, occurring 5321x. The word refers to the proper name of the God of Israel, particularly the name by which He revealed Himself to Moses (Ex: 6.2-3). It comes from the root “hawa” H1961, which means either existence, or development; “to be”. “The existing one”.

    H1961 “hawa” A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

    H1933 “havah” A primitive root supposed to mean properly to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence): - be, X have.


    References:
    Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume three, pp. 1067 - 1081
    Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #484a, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 210 – 212
    The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 426

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    here "I AM" is used as a name

    question:
    Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' what shall I say to them?"

    answer:
    Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
    So close!! You stopped exactly 1 verse too soon;

    Ex 3:15-16
    5 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name forever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
    16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, hath appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and (seen) that which is done to you in Egypt:


    Notice ..... NO WHERE does Jehovah state that "I am" is a NAME.

    Quote Originally Posted by w2g
    No,
    that is not in the bible and that is what we are using here , no cult bibles like nwt.
    your additions are only in your made up bible.
    Are you unfamiliar with the Septuagint???
    Last edited by Dartman; February 10th, 2019 at 11:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    If their understanding was right, then Jesus lied when He corrected them.
    In fact, if Jesus is God Himself, then Jesus spent most of His time on earth lying to everyone.
    No, He didn't lie. You just misunderstood him. The Jews didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    You are Wrong, and, so were the Jews that murdered Jesus.
    It never ceases to amaze me, how DESPERATE onetarians are! To cling to the accusations of murderers, rather than what Jesus actually said is insane.

    Notice you NEVER find any of the disciples stating that Jesus was making himself God. Here is what THEY said;
    Matt 16:15-17 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    John 6:67-69 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.


    Spoiler
    And, I know ..... about now you will trot out the tired, mutated interpretation of John 20:28 ..... and try to turn Thomas' exultation of both his Lord, who had been raised from the dead, and his God who DID the raising ..... into something utterly contradictory to the rest of Scripture.

    How truly desperate ..... and sad.
    I'll ignore your childish, "How truly desperate....and sad" comment....knowing your ignorance has gotten the better of you.



    The fact is that the Jews were expecting God to come in the flesh...as a mighty Conquer ....it was Christ's humanity (the lowly servant) they saw that turned them off. How dare this lowly Nazarene claim to be the Son of God ...the Messiah....Emmanuel (God with us). They read Isaiah and were expecting "OUR GOD".

    Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

    Isaiah 40:3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

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    Greetings again 7djengo7 and Apple7,
    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    In John 10:30-36 KJV, Jesus says nothing, whatsoever, that implies, nor even remotely resembles "HENCE, I am NOT God" or "HENCE, I am not YAHWEH." Yet, you pretend to think that He does. So, feel free to try to explain why, exactly, you say that He does.
    Perhaps one day you will see the difference between the titles God and The Son of God. I suggest again that you give some personal consideration of Jesus’ answer in John 10:30-36 to their false accusation. There was possibly many groups in the crowd, the Pharisees, the Scribes, a few of the Sanhedrin, possibly Nicodemus, a few looking to collect stones, a few jeering, the disciples and others. We need to choose how we respond to the words that Jesus spoke here. I will not be the expositor for you on this occasion, but recommend you reconsider your alignment with their wrong assessment and accusation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    And yet...just a chapter prior, John 9.35 - 38, Jesus declares that He is The Son, and He is immediately worshiped as God!
    Philippians 2:10-11.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple7 View Post
    The Hebrew of Exo 3.14 has Yahweh saying ‘I AM’ (ehyeh) three separate times.

    The Greek translators did NOT translate the second and third ‘ehyeh’ with the same words used to translate the first ‘I AM’.

    ‘Egw eimi’ translates the first ‘I AM’ (ehyeh), in the LXX, while ‘ho wn’ is used to translate the second and third instances of ‘I AM’, in the LXX.

    So, as you can easily verify, THREE separate 'I AM' statements are made in BOTH Hebrew and the LXX.

    But, you can't be bothered with the study of the original languages...
    Do you know Biblical Hebrew?

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    One of my favorite verses of Scripture points out Who Jesus is the best. The Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus and encountered The Holy Ghost...

    And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

    He proves that He is God and there can be no explaining away, because we're not told that there is a 'spirit of son' in Scripture. It's The Holy Spirit of God, Who is Christ.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    One of my favorite verses of Scripture points out Who Jesus is the best. The Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus and encountered The Holy Ghost...

    And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

    He proves that He is God and there can be no explaining away, because we're not told that there is a 'spirit of son' in Scripture. It's The Holy Spirit of God, Who is Christ.
    Both times Paul recounted this event at his trials...Luke wished to make it clear that Paul’s answer was in Hebrew/Aramaic...

    Thus the name Paul heard was not “Jesus” or Iesous...or some other racist anti semitic colonizing priveledged white man language...LOL

    A conspiracy so grand it wished to erase the jewishness of our Savior...why we might still be crowding the synagogues on the Sabbath...LOL

    Silly goyim...Sabbath...a day off...ain’t for them...

    Or torah protections from usury or debt forgiveness...goyim remain strangers...

    That wall between jew and goyim remains...right?

    That vision Peter had was about being able to eat bacon...not entering Israel as full citizens...co-heirs to the Promise...

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I'll ignore your childish, "How truly desperate....and sad" comment....knowing your ignorance has gotten the better of you.
    LOL .... no you won't! Your retort proves you incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by G
    The fact is that the Jews were expecting God to come in the flesh...as a mighty Conquer ....it was Christ's humanity (the lowly servant) they saw that turned them off. How dare this lowly Nazarene claim to be the Son of God ...the Messiah....Emmanuel (God with us).
    Exactly. Jesus was not the conquering King they craved, but he WAS proof that his God was on their side, that God was not against them.

    Quote Originally Posted by G
    They read Isaiah and were expecting "OUR GOD".
    No they didn't. They were expecting the King that God had promised.

    IF they were expecting "our God" ..... then why did they try to kill him, accusing him of "making himself equal with God"???

    Your story is self contradicting.
    Quote Originally Posted by G
    Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

    Isaiah 40:3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
    Jesus served the his God. John was doing Jehovah, God's work, preparing Israel for God's prophet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    One of my favorite verses of Scripture points out Who Jesus is the best. The Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus and encountered The Holy Ghost...

    And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
    Very good ..... so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel
    He proves that He is God
    Nope, it proves Jesus is Lord.

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    neither verse states or implies your premise "each believer has glory before the world existed "
    Rom 8:29-30 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son,that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

    1 Cor 2:7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

    You are attempting to overcome your error with bluster...... Much like the Black Knight in the Monty Python movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by w2g
    I did not insert it into the text but it was in my description of the text
    Ok, then you agree "again" is NOT in the text... you made it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by W2G
    Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

    Jesus says he had glory before the creation of the world
    Yes, he DID .... and so do ALL the believers, as the Scriptures above prove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    LOL .... no you won't! Your retort proves you incorrect.
    Your LOL proves you're a fool.

    Exactly. Jesus was not the conquering King they craved, but he WAS proof that his God was on their side, that God was not against them.
    That must be why God set Israel aside and turned to the Gentiles.

    Romans 11:10-11 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


    IF they were expecting "our God" ..... then why did they try to kill him, accusing him of "making himself equal with God"???
    I told you already. You need to pay attention. They were expecting OUR GOD to come as Lord and KING...not as a humble servant.

    Your story is self contradicting.
    You can't handle the truth...just admit it.


    Jesus served the his God. John was doing Jehovah, God's work, preparing Israel for God's prophet.
    You just doubled down on stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    One of my favorite verses of Scripture points out Who Jesus is the best. The Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus and encountered The Holy Ghost...

    And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

    He proves that He is God and there can be no explaining away, because we're not told that there is a 'spirit of son' in Scripture. It's The Holy Spirit of God, Who is Christ.
    Are you saying the Risen Lord is the Holy Spirit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Your LOL proves you're a fool.
    Matt 5:22 .... and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.


    Quote Originally Posted by G
    That must be why God set Israel aside and turned to the Gentiles.
    Romans 11:10-11 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
    God didn't turn from the Jews that accepted His son, He turned aside from the Jews that accused His son of claiming to be God.

    ... (rubbish deleted) ...

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