User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: Atonement

  1. #1
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    53
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    405

    Atonement

    Jesus was killed by none believers (romans).
    Did the romans did it for sin offering or for crime?
    Does God will accept the Roman's offering?

  2. #2
    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    6,493
    Thanks
    358
    Thanked 401 Times in 296 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    117553
    The High Priest, Caiaphas, asked for Jesus to be put to death, which in God's Eyes made Jesus a legal sacrifice.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

  3. #3
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    53
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    405
    The high priest command the death for crime charging or offering for sins?

  4. #4
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    In front of the strange glowing screen of an inexplicable mechanism.
    Posts
    4,121
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 93 Times in 88 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Why are all the major events in the life of Christ directly described in the Gospels except for his resurrection?

    Why does Western Christianity depict an individual resurrection but Eastern Christianity presents a universal resurrection?

    Could it be that the West gutted the heart of Christianity’s understanding of the resurrection by rejecting a once-common universal iconography in favor of an individualistic vision?

    The theology of the atonement was not developed until some 900 years after the crucifixion, by Christian writer Anselm of Canterbury.

  5. #5
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    53
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    405
    I always wonder why a great God will demand blood of a man to grant another man salvation.
    Nowhere God ever made such claims.

  6. #6
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    In front of the strange glowing screen of an inexplicable mechanism.
    Posts
    4,121
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 93 Times in 88 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    I always wonder why a great God will demand blood of a man to grant another man salvation.
    Nowhere God ever made such claims.
    Christians have been taught this for a long, long time.

    “Go and learn what this means: [God] desires mercy and NOT sacrifice.
    --Matthew 9:13

  7. #7
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,134 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147829
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    I always wonder why a great God will demand blood of a man to grant another man salvation.
    Nowhere God ever made such claims.
    That isn't what happens, anyway.

  8. #8
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    25,588
    Thanks
    16,942
    Thanked 40,134 Times in 20,063 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    114 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147829
    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    Why are all the major events in the life of Christ directly described in the Gospels except for his resurrection?

    Why does Western Christianity depict an individual resurrection but Eastern Christianity presents a universal resurrection?

    Could it be that the West gutted the heart of Christianity’s understanding of the resurrection by rejecting a once-common universal iconography in favor of an individualistic vision?

    The theology of the atonement was not developed until some 900 years after the crucifixion, by Christian writer Anselm of Canterbury.
    No, the word is actually reconciliation. You'll find that in the Bible.

  9. #9
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    In front of the strange glowing screen of an inexplicable mechanism.
    Posts
    4,121
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 93 Times in 88 Posts

    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Jesus was quickly and brutally executed like many others in the day.

    He died for his vision because he was said to hzve proclaimed himself “King of the Jews.”

    A sign was hung on the cross that says as much.

    [The wording on the sign is different for each of the four gospels].

  10. #10
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    53
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    405
    The question which everyone like to ignore:
    Did the killers of Jesus hanged or crucified him for crime he committed or as sacrifice to God to forgive their sins?

  11. #11
    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    12,074
    Thanks
    1,462
    Thanked 1,337 Times in 1,171 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    328450
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    The question which everyone like to ignore:
    Did the killers of Jesus hanged or crucified him for crime he committed or as sacrifice to God to forgive their sins?
    Jesus' execution was political, the priests wanted to extinguish his message.

    They thought crucifixion would accomplish this. Wrong.

  12. #12
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    53
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Jesus' execution was political, the priests wanted to extinguish his message.

    They thought crucifixion would accomplish this. Wrong.
    Thank you. So the priest intention was not to offer him as sacrifice but punish him and extinguish his message?

  13. #13
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    53
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by aikido7 View Post
    Christians have been taught this for a long, long time.

    “Go and learn what this means: [God] desires mercy and NOT sacrifice.
    --Matthew 9:13
    Why Christians never look at Matt. 9:13, and see God as merciful God not blood thirsty.

  14. #14
    ☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) ☜☜☜☜☞☞☞☞ A Calvinist! ☜☜☜☜☜ Ask Mr. Religion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona USA
    Posts
    6,831
    Thanks
    4,542
    Thanked 4,023 Times in 2,297 Posts

    Blog Entries
    148
    Mentioned
    88 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)



    Rep Power
    2147698
    Quote Originally Posted by Oleander View Post
    I always wonder why a great God will demand blood of a man to grant another man salvation.
    Nowhere God ever made such claims.
    All of Scripture is God's word.

    Robert Traill (Stedfast Adherence to the Profession of our Faith), Works 3:230:
    Christ Jesus was offered in sacrifice to God for us. He did not die only in love for us, and he did not die only to give an example for us, and he did not die only for our good; but he died in our stead, he died as a sacrifice dies. The way in which the beast that was to be sacrificed died, was this: there was a transferring of the guilt of the master of him upon his head; that guilt deserved death by the law, and this death was inflicted upon the poor innocent creature. This was a shadow of that great sacrifice that the Son of God was to offer. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood, he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us, [Hebrews] chap. 9:11, 12.

    Hugh Binning, Works, p. 422:
    Our Lord Jesus Christ enters into a covenant with the Father, wherein he undertakes to bear our curse, and the chastisement of our peace. He is content to be dealt with as the rebel, “Upon me, upon me be the iniquity;” and so there comes an interruption, as it were, of that blessed peace he had with the Father. He is content that there should be a covering of wrath spread over the Father’s love, that he should handle the Son as an enemy; and therefore it is, that sinners are admitted as friends, – his obedience takes away our rebellion. The cloud of the Lord’s displeasure pours down upon him, that it might be fair weather to us; the armies of curses that were against us, encounter him, and he, by being overcome, overcometh; by being slain by justice, Satan, and sin, overcometh all those, and killeth the enmity on the cross, making peace by his blood, Col. 2:14, 15; Eph. 2:15. And it is this sacrifice that hath pacified heaven, – the sweet smell of it hath gone above, and made peace in the high places.

    Spoiler

    1. God exists. (Gen. 1:1)
    2. God is infinite. (Psalm 90:2, 147:5; Jer. 23:24)
    3. God is holy. (Isaiah 6:3; Rev. 4:8)
    4. God is righteous. (Neh. 9:32-33; 1 Thess. 1:6)
    5. Therefore, God is infinitely holy and just.

    6. Furthermore, God speaks out of the character of who He is. (Matt. 12:34)

    7. God spoke the Law. (Ex. 20:1-17)

    8. Therefore, the Law is in the heart of God and is a reflection of God's character since it is Holy and Good. (Rom. 7:12)

    9. Furthermore, to break the Law of God is to offend Him since it is His Law that we break. This sin results in an infinite offense because God is infinite and His wrath against sin is infinite, thus, the payment made by the reprobate must be unending.

    10. Furthermore, it is also right that God punish the Law breaker. To not punish the Law breaker (sinner) is to allow an offense against His holiness to be ignored. (Amos 2:4; Rom. 4:15; Ex. 23:7; Ex. 34:7; Ps. 5:4-6; Rom. 2:5-6)

    11. God says that the person who sins must die (be punished). The wages of sin is death. (Eze. 18:4; Rom. 6:23)

    12. The sinner needs to escape the righteous judgment of God or he will face damnation. (Rom. 1:18; Matt. 25:46)

    13. But, no sinner can undo an infinite offense since to please God and make things right, he must obey the Law, which is the standard of God's righteous character. (Gal. 2:16, 2:21)

    14. But the sinner cannot fulfill the law because he is sinful (in the flesh). (Rom. 8:3)

    15. Since the sinner cannot fulfill the law and satisfy God, it follows that only God can do this.

    16. Jesus is God in flesh. (John 1:1, 1:14; Col. 2:9)

    18. The substitute could not be an animal. (Heb. 10:4)

    19. Neither could an angel be the substitute, for the substitute must take upon himself human nature. (Heb. 2:14)

    20. No sinner could atone for his fellow sinners. (Psa. 49:7–8).

    21. It was only God Himself who could be the exact, perfect and proper substitute to atone for the sins of His people, and completely satisfy the vindication of His justice and righteousness, and thus render man acceptable in His sight.

    22. Jesus was also a man under the Law. (1 Tim. 2:5; Gal. 4:5-6)

    23. Since then the children share in flesh and blood, Jesus, Himself, likewise partook of the same, that through death he might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.

    24. Therefore, he had to be made like his brethren in all things, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Heb. 2:14–17)

    25. Jesus Christ alone could be the fitting or proper high priest. (Heb. 7:26)

    26. The sinlessness of the substitute is necessary. (2 Cor. 5:21)

    27. Therefore, Jesus became sin for us and bore our sins unto death in His body on the cross, which revealed the specific penalty required for sin, thus fulfilling the Law. (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Peter 2:24; Rom. 3:24–26; Rom. 8:3-4)

    28. The gift is valued according to the altar on which it is presented. Christ offered Himself through the eternal Spirit (Heb. 9:14), that is to say, He offered His human nature on the altar of His divine nature. He was able to suffer infinite punishment and satisfy divine justice because of the dignity of His person. His divine nature being eternal, His offering possesses an eternal quality. Hence, although Christ did not sacrifice Himself eternally, He nevertheless offered an eternal sacrifice to satisfy divine justice.

    29. Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith since it was not by our keeping the Law, but by Jesus, God in flesh, who fulfilled the Law and died in our place. (Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 3:13; Eph. 5:2)

    30. Finally, it follows from the above that a person’s duty is to believe, claiming Christ’s atoning sacrifice as their own in order to be declared righteous before God. Such a true believer will be known from their works.


    AMR
    Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



    Do you confess?
    Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
    AMR's Randomata Blog
    Learn Reformed Doctrine
    I fear explanations explanatory of things explained.
    Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
    Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
    The best TOL Social Group: here.
    If your username appears in blue and you have over 500 posts:
    Why?



  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ask Mr. Religion For Your Post:

    Bright Raven (February 2nd, 2019),glorydaz (February 2nd, 2019),Sherman (February 3rd, 2019)

  16. #15
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    53
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    405
    We been told by the scripture, the devil, the one who did the planning and Judas did the execution.
    Do you believe God joined them too?
    If God the one who offer jesus as a sacrifice, you think he'll send the devil to Judas or the holy spirit?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us