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Thread: 2 Corinthians 5:16 KJV

  1. #46
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You failed to mention that you just recently quoted Charles Welch of Acts 28 fame.
    I rarely quote, other authors, while you, in contrast, quote others, in every other post, deceiver.


    But nice change directions, side step. You said that you obtained this "Jesus was a man in heaven before he came to earth" jazz from "Sir" Robert Anderson. You never quoted him. You asserted this jazz. I caught you in another lie. Explain your lie.
    Saint John W

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  3. #47
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    But nice change directions, side step. You said that you obtained this "Jesus was a man in heaven before he came to earth" jazz from "Sir" Robert Anderson. You never quoted him. You asserted this jazz. I caught you in another lie. Explain your lie.
    Here are Sir Robert Anderson's own words on the subject:

    "The revelation of the Son of Man will lead the spiritual Christian, who has learned to note the hidden harmony of Scripture, to recall the language of the creation story: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." "The type," as the biologist would phrase it, is not the creature of Eden, but He after whose likeness the creature was fashioned. And this suggests the solution of a "mystery." We are but men, and while angels behold the face of God, no man hath seen Him or can see Him. We are "flesh and blood," and "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." And yet as men we are to dwell in heavenly glory; and that wonderful promise shall be fulfilled to us-" They shall see His face."

    "How is this seeming paradox to be explained? "Flesh and blood" are not essential to humanity. True it is that, as "the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same. He assumed "a natural body." "For there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." The one pertains to "the first man," who is "of the earth earthy, the other to "the second Man," who is "of heaven." For the Lord from heaven is "Very Man," and it is as Man that He is now upon the throne. But the body is not the man: it is but the tent, the outward dress, as it were, which covers Him. And He is "the same yesterday, and to-day, and for ever " the same who once trod the roads of Galilee and the streets of Jerusalem. He is enthroned as Man, but no longer now in "flesh and blood." For ere He "passed through the heavens" He changed His dress.

    "And we too "shall be changed." "As we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly,' The image, or pattern, of the earthy is the Adam of the Eden creation; that of the heavenly is the last Adam, the Lord from heaven. And He will "fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of His glory"
    (Sir Robert Anderson, The Lord From Heaven [Grand Rapids: Kregel Classics, 1978], 31-32).

    Sonny boy,this is way, way, way, way, WAY above your understanding since you are unable to understand the words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life"
    (Jn.6:47).

  4. #48
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Here are Sir Robert Anderson's own words on the subject:

    "The revelation of the Son of Man will lead the spiritual Christian, who has learned to note the hidden harmony of Scripture, to recall the language of the creation story: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." "The type," as the biologist would phrase it, is not the creature of Eden, but He after whose likeness the creature was fashioned. And this suggests the solution of a "mystery." We are but men, and while angels behold the face of God, no man hath seen Him or can see Him. We are "flesh and blood," and "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." And yet as men we are to dwell in heavenly glory; and that wonderful promise shall be fulfilled to us-" They shall see His face."

    "How is this seeming paradox to be explained? "Flesh and blood" are not essential to humanity. True it is that, as "the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same. He assumed "a natural body." "For there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." The one pertains to "the first man," who is "of the earth earthy, the other to "the second Man," who is "of heaven." For the Lord from heaven is "Very Man," and it is as Man that He is now upon the throne. But the body is not the man: it is but the tent, the outward dress, as it were, which covers Him. And He is "the same yesterday, and to-day, and for ever " the same who once trod the roads of Galilee and the streets of Jerusalem. He is enthroned as Man, but no longer now in "flesh and blood." For ere He "passed through the heavens" He changed His dress.

    "And we too "shall be changed." "As we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly,' The image, or pattern, of the earthy is the Adam of the Eden creation; that of the heavenly is the last Adam, the Lord from heaven. And He will "fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of His glory"
    (Sir Robert Anderson, The Lord From Heaven [Grand Rapids: Kregel Classics, 1978], 31-32).

    Sonny boy,this is way, way, way, way, WAY above your understanding since you are unable to understand the words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life"
    (Jn.6:47).
    Evasion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    That is not my original thought because that was said by Sir Robert Anderson, the father of "truthful" systematized Mid Acts Dispensationalism. He certainly didn't deny the Lord Jesus' plain words which He spoke to the Jews who lived under the law:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life"
    (Jn.6:47).
    So, just to set the record straight-Jer. denies that he said:

    "The Lord Jesus was in heaven as Man before He came down to earth and was born of Mary."


    Jer asserts that he never said it-he said Anderson did. And stuff "that is not my original thought," as if it was not, why did you say it? Why did you not site Anderson? And Jer asserts that AMR misquoted him.


    You lied, to wit:

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...ne-God/page246

    Post #3677
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    With that understood it is easy to know that when the Lord used the term "Son of God" He was referring to Himself as God. And when He used the term "Son of Man" He was referring to Himself as Man.

    And these words prove that it was as Man that He came down from heaven, proving that He was Man before being born of Mary:

    "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).

    And the Lord Jesus says practically the same thing here:

    "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).

    What He is saying there can only mean one thing, that He was in heaven as Man prior to being born of Mary.

    But for some reason you just cannot believe what He said.


    Caught.....Watch the squirm, evasion, spin....
    Saint John W

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  6. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Excellent post, Brother John.

    What you pointed out that I never saw before is that the subjects of even human kings almost never refer to royalty only by their given names -- when done formally and correctly (which is usually) it's always somehow in the context of the royal title. Same with lords and other elites. At minimum, it's a sign of respect and of knowing one's place (I'm not advocating for such human systems, just describing them as they are).

    And yet the Lord Christ is referred to merely as Jesus most everywhere today...in books, in "praise and worship" songs, in prayers...there's a reason for that but most don't know what it is.
    I found this very interesting as well.... the term "Lord Jesus" is use only ONCE in the "gospels".... ONLY Luke uses the term and that ONE occurrence is in the LAST CHAPTER. (Luke also uses the term 19 times in the book of Acts with only 5 of those before Acts 9).

    YET... in Paul's epistle's the term is found 85 TIMES..... 85 TIMES!!!

    And yet most of Churchianity will not even notice this incredible distinction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Know who else preaches this?

    And these words prove that it was as Man that He came down from heaven, proving that He was Man before being born of Mary:

    "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).

    And the Lord Jesus says practically the same thing here:

    "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).

    What He is saying there can only mean one thing, that He was in heaven as Man prior to being born of Mary.
    Answer:

    Attached Images Attached Images
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    If only you all knew the bliss of having Jerry on ingore!
    I do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  12. #52
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    Jerry is the Jelly Belly of TOL. A real mixed bag, you never know what will come out.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  14. #53
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I do.
    I'm finding out. It is really peaceful.

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  16. #54
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Jerry is the Jelly Belly of TOL. A real mixed bag, you never know what will come out.
    It all sounds the same to me. Same verses for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    It all sounds the same to me. Same verses for sure.
    JohnW smells Catholic. We both smell L.S. There's a clear streak of Acts 2 and now a dash of Mormon. Very eclectic mix he has.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  20. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    JohnW smells Catholic. We both smell L.S. There's a clear streak of Acts 2 and now a dash of Mormon. Very eclectic mix he has.
    Too many books. Brain fry.

    Ecclesiastes 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

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  22. #57
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Too many books. Brain fry.
    Too many denials of the words of the Lord Jesus fries brains and will fry the whole person in the future. For instance, there are many on this forum who teach that the Jewish believers who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works despite the following words of the Savior Himself spoken to the Jews:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life"
    (Jn.5:24).

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life" (Jn.6:47).

    "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die"
    (Jn.11:25-26).

    Now let us look at what is written here:

    "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).

    The word "whosoever" in this verse must include not only the Gentile believers as well as the Jews who lived under the law. So all people who believe in the Lord Jesus have in their possession everlasting life and they shall never perish. No "works" of any kind are mentioned.

    glorydaz, you are not one of those with fried brains who deny these words of the Lord Jesus and say that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works, are you?

    Oh, I forgot. You don't answer questions on the grounds that your answers may tend incriminate you. However, in the end that will not help you in anyway because the LORD knows the heart.

    You can run from Him but you can't hide from Him.

  23. #58
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    If only you all knew the bliss of having Jerry on ingore!
    The same bliss which you have by having the Lord Jesus on ignore because you are unable to even understand the following words which the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life"
    (Jn.6:47).

    It is true what they say about people like you, that "ignorance is bliss."

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