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Thread: What IS an "immaterial spirit"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    You can hit as many people with hammers in the brains as you like, and you aren't going to destroy a word. You will only prevent certain individuals from being able to comprehend any words at all.
    What happens to their "spirit", when ANYTHING causes them to stop thinking?

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    So, what is the "spirit" doing when your flesh can't think??
    You're thinking with your flesh....that's your problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You're thinking with your flesh....that's your problem.
    What do you think with?

    Tell me, if your head was transplanted on to some unfortunate donor's body ..... where would "YOU" be?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...fully-carried/

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    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Don't take it personally: there's more evidence to support that God was guiding Tyndale and those that continued his work than that he has given special revelation to any particular person here who suggests that we should add and delete words to create different meaning.
    The words I suggest have been added as a gloss are all highly accepted by most translators as a gloss. I find the lack of the old system to point these words out for our discernment to be suspicious...since it makes the bible a theological statement, not the word of the Spirit. And I have offered or suggested no extra meaning to any word that is not already within the accepted meaning of the word and so used in other places in scripture.

    Ask how the Pharisees, the most dedicated t their religion, missed the whole point of their religion, the divine Messiah who would die for the sins of His people.
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    So, you don't believe there are material spirits?
    A "material" spirit would be a contradiction.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Ears to hear this truth. A brain to process and retain the information. Etc.
    Show me an immaterial triangle.

    Your skull.
    1. Triangles don't depend on brains and ears, any more than a falling tree depends on someone to hear it at the time for it to actually happen.

    2. An immaterial triangle would be composed of three lines connecting three points. Points have no mass, they are theoretical. Lines are likewise theoretical, being an infinite array of points between two points. It's a mathematical concept rather than an actual material thing, just like "2 + 2 = 4" is an immaterial concept that exists regardless of whether it is demonstrated through manipulation of objects.

    3. Although removing the brain from the skull might be unhealthy, that doesn't necessarily stop the ability to think. Some people have pieces of their skull missing and they still think. It's just a danger that they will get struck by something and suffer brain damage, but the brain can still operate without the protective shell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    A "material" spirit would be a contradiction.
    Only according to pagan superstition, as Jesus pointed out in Luke 24.
    According to Scripture "immaterial" is never stated, explained or preached.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    1. Triangles don't depend on brains and ears, any more than a falling tree depends on someone to hear it at the time for it to actually happen.

    2. An immaterial triangle would be composed of three lines connecting three points. Points have no mass, they are theoretical. Lines are likewise theoretical, being an infinite array of points between two points. It's a mathematical concept rather than an actual material thing, just like "2 + 2 = 4" is an immaterial concept that exists regardless of whether it is demonstrated through manipulation of objects.
    Your theory is blindly refusing to accept the necessity of mater for our mind. You wouldn't understand the theoretical concept without a brain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter
    3. Although removing the brain from the skull might be unhealthy, that doesn't necessarily stop the ability to think. Some people have pieces of their skull missing and they still think.
    You are distorting my question. I didn't say anything about a missing skull, I was asked this question about a missing brain.

    ... You can't think if your brain is removed from what?

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    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Only according to pagan superstition, as Jesus pointed out in Luke 24.
    According to Scripture "immaterial" is never stated, explained or preached.
    I don't see Jesus identifying that as a pagan superstition or using words to that effect. Nor should the word "immaterial" need to be appended to "spirit" any more than "material" needs to be appended to "rock" or "bone" or "steel."

    Do you see the phrase "material steel" anywhere in the Bible? Should we take that as proof that steel is immaterial?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Your theory is blindly refusing to accept the necessity of mater for our mind. You wouldn't understand the theoretical concept without a brain.
    No, it's not. You asked about whether triangles were immaterial. They are. When you arrange matter in the shape of a triangle, you are mimicking the concept of triangle. Brains have nothing to do with this.

    You are distorting my question. I didn't say anything about a missing skull, I was asked this question about a missing brain.

    ... You can't think if your brain is removed from what?
    You literally said that you cannot think if your brain is removed from your skull. A brain could also theoretically live in a test tube. You can still think with amputated arms, and amputated legs, you can still think if your spinal cord is severed, you can think with parts or all of the skull removed. Since you are wanting to talk about specific physical parts of our body and their function, you best be accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    No, it's not. You asked about whether triangles were immaterial. They are. When you arrange matter in the shape of a triangle, you are mimicking the concept of triangle. Brains have nothing to do with this.
    I didn't say the "concept" of a triangle is material. And, this is definitely a distraction from the real point. God's Creation demonstrates that you need a brain to comprehend concepts. God Creation has concrete proof of BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of examples of material life forms ...... and ZERO "immaterial life forms".

    The Scriptures, more importantly, do not contain ANY descriptions of spirits, while the "spirits" mentioned are always visible when in proximity to humans ..... UNLESS the humans have their sight "held", so that they can't see, or can't recognize the being.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter
    You literally said that you cannot think if your brain is removed from your skull.
    Yes I did, which is different than your misunderstanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter
    A brain could also theoretically live in a test tube.
    Hogwash.

    I suppose it is theoretically possible for a brain to live and think in a highly complex mechanism that could provide oxygen, and nutrients, and all of the chemicals utilized by the brain.... but 1) That is FAR from "a test tube" .... and it couldn't communicate without the 5 senses, plus a system for producing words.


    You are merely struggling to overcome the obvious.
    There are ZERO "immaterial beings" in God's Creation.
    There are ZERO verses instructing us to believe in "immaterial beings".
    There are ZERO explanations of "immaterial beings", other than correcting the pagan superstitions of men.
    There are MANY Scriptures that discuss God, as a tangible, visible being, that we were Created to look like.
    There are MANY Scriptures that discuss angels as indistinguishable from men.

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    I asked you,

    "On what material things would you say depends the truth that all triangles have three sides?"

    And, you wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Ears to hear this truth. A brain to process and retain the information. Etc.
    Here, you have just claimed that the existence of triangles depends upon the existence of brains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Show me an immaterial triangle.
    What (if anything) do you think you mean by "show me"? If you are saying, "Cause my eyes to see what cannot be seen with eyes", why, we have just one more example of just how dedicated you are to irrationality.

    You said, "You can't think if your brain is removed."
    I asked, "You can't think if your brain is removed FROM WHAT?"
    Your response:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Your skull.
    Oh. OK. So, which is YOU, the skull, or the brain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Oh. OK. So, which is YOU, the skull, or the brain?
    Excellent question, the skull is a nice way to keep your hair out of your brain, and a great helmet ...... but it isn't your identity.
    The brain is.
    If you suffer from trauma, or the wrong chemicals, or malnourishment, or a parasite, or a virus , etc, your spirit/mind can be forever altered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    What do you mean (spurious Scripture has been re-interpreted by scribes)?
    The Dead Sea Scrolls proved that we have the exact Scriptures, word-for-word, every letter exactly as was passed down through the ages, for the books therein. Dispelled your notion of scribes changing what the prophets wrote.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Excellent question, the skull is a nice way to keep your hair out of your brain, and a great helmet ...... but it isn't your identity.
    The brain is.
    If you suffer from trauma, or the wrong chemicals, or malnourishment, or a parasite, or a virus , etc, your spirit/mind can be forever altered.
    Are you saying that a brain is a spirit?
    Are you saying that a brain is a mind?

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