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Thread: What IS an "immaterial spirit"?

  1. #31
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    I'll try to follow your reasoning as best as I can but I'm sticking with the inspired text.

    You do know that what you accept as the inspired text has been INTERPRETED by the theology of the translators and then REINTERPRETED for you by the theological doctrine of your church. Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding ...about the meaning of scripture...
    I Champion GODís holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  2. #32
    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    You do know that what you accept as the inspired text has been INTERPRETED by the theology of the translators ...
    Hogwash. This notion has been disproved.
    No Bueno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by way 2 go View Post
    the words you have written or spoken are immaterial but are information .
    True, words are not material, nor are ideas. But both require material components. You can't hear in space. You can't speak without a larynx. You can get a mechanical larynx, but that's still material. You can't think if your brain is removed. You can't think if you get hit hard enough to lose consciousness, are sound asleep, or are deeply anesthetized. So words don''t happen without matter. Information isn't stored, or conveyed without matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Hogwash. This notion has been disproved.
    What do you mean?

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    Over 500 post club 7djengo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    True, words are not material, nor are ideas.
    Oh, so you admit that words and ideas are immaterial. But, you deny that spirits are immaterial. Oh, yeah, you're surely cooking on all four burners....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    But both require material components.
    Something isn't immaterial unless it has one or more material component(s)? Really?
    So, you admit that a word is immaterial, but then you claim that it is only immaterial insofar as it consists of one or more material component(s)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    You can't hear in space.
    Did the Bible tell you that?

    I can hear, and I am in America. Since America is part of Earth, and Earth is in space, I'm in space. I can hear in space. Can you not hear?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    You can't speak without a larynx.
    But, what do you mean, here, by "speak", if not merely "operate a larynx"? All you've said, here, is that "you can't [operate a larynx] without a larynx." Brilliant!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    You can't think if your brain is removed.
    You can't think if your brain is removed from what? From you? Are you saying that "you can't think if your brain is removed [from you]"?

    When you say, "You can't think if your brain is removed", to what are you referring by the pronoun 'you'? Obviously, you are not referring to your brain, since that's been removed. So, what would you say is the residual, brainless "you" that can't think? Clearly, you admit that the "you" is one thing, and that the brain is another thing. And, if you can't think if your brain is removed, what about your brain? Can it think if it is removed?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    You can't think if you get hit hard enough to lose consciousness, are sound asleep, or are deeply anesthetized.
    Oh, so it follows that, if you get knocked out, fall asleep, etc., you cease to be immaterial? Is that it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    So words don''t happen without matter.
    What (if anything) would you say it is for a word to happen?
    Give a detailed explanation of exactly what you think it is for a word to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Information isn't stored, or conveyed without matter.
    As usual, you're blaspheming God, for, now, you are affirming that God is dependent on matter if He would store or convey information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Oh, so you admit that words and ideas are immaterial. But, you deny that spirits are immaterial.
    Correct.
    ....

    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7
    Something isn't immaterial unless it has one or more material component(s)? Really?
    No.
    Your statement doesn't resemble my statements.
    I said ideas and words are dependent on material things.
    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7
    So, you admit that a word is immaterial, but then you claim that it is only immaterial insofar as it consists of one or more material component(s)?
    No.
    Your statement doesn't resemble my statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7
    You can't think if your brain is removed from what? From you? Are you saying that "you can't think if your brain is removed [from you]"?
    Of course, you will die, and there are no thoughts in the grave.

    Ps 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.


    Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.


    Eccl 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

    Dead is like sleep, resurrection FROM the dead is like waking up;
    John 11:11-14 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
    12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.


    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7
    Oh, so it follows that, if you get knocked out, fall asleep, etc., you cease to be immaterial? Is that it?
    No.
    Your statement doesn't resemble my statements.

  9. #37
    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttruscott View Post
    You do know that what you accept as the inspired text has been INTERPRETED by the theology of the translators and then REINTERPRETED for you by the theological doctrine of your church. Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding ...about the meaning of scripture...
    Don't take it personally: there's more evidence to support that God was guiding Tyndale and those that continued his work than that he has given special revelation to any particular person here who suggests that we should add and delete words to create different meaning.

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  11. #38
    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    True, words are not material, nor are ideas. But both require material components. You can't hear in space. You can't speak without a larynx. You can get a mechanical larynx, but that's still material. You can't think if your brain is removed. You can't think if you get hit hard enough to lose consciousness, are sound asleep, or are deeply anesthetized. So words don''t happen without matter. Information isn't stored, or conveyed without matter.
    You can hit as many people with hammers in the brains as you like, and you aren't going to destroy a word. You will only prevent certain individuals from being able to comprehend any words at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Oh, so you admit that words and ideas are immaterial. But, you deny that spirits are immaterial. Oh, yeah, you're surely cooking on all four burners....


    Something isn't immaterial unless it has one or more material component(s)? Really?
    So, you admit that a word is immaterial, but then you claim that it is only immaterial insofar as it consists of one or more material component(s)?

    Did the Bible tell you that?

    I can hear, and I am in America. Since America is part of Earth, and Earth is in space, I'm in space. I can hear in space. Can you not hear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    I said ideas and words are dependent on material things.
    On what material things would you say depends the truth that all triangles have three sides? And, how does the truth that all triangles have three sides depend on material things?

    You stated that immaterial things "require material components". Would you say that the truth that all triangles have three sides "requires material components"? If so, for what does that truth "require material components"?

    You had written, "You can't think if your brain is removed", and I asked you a question, which you have not answered, and you wrote this, instead:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Of course, you will die, and there are no thoughts in the grave.
    I'll try asking the question, again:

    You can't think if your brain is removed from what?

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    Over 5000 post club Rosenritter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    On what material things would you say depends the truth that all triangles have three sides? And, how does the truth that all triangles have three sides depend on material things?

    You stated that immaterial things "require material components". Would you say that the truth that all triangles have three sides "requires material components"? If so, for what does that truth "require material components"?

    You had written, "You can't think if your brain is removed", and I asked you a question, which you have not answered, and you wrote this, instead:



    I'll try asking the question, again:

    You can't think if your brain is removed from what?
    From personal experience, I know you cannot think if your brain is removed from sufficient supply of oxygen and/or sugar.

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    You can hit as many people with hammers in the brains as you like, and you aren't going to destroy a word. You will only prevent certain individuals from being able to comprehend any words at all.
    And what does this have to do with the spiritual realm? Participating in this thread is supposed to give you some credence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    From personal experience, I know you cannot think if your brain is removed from sufficient supply of oxygen and/or sugar.
    You're still in the body of flesh. You have no other experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You're still in the body of flesh. You have no other experience.
    So, what is the "spirit" doing when your flesh can't think??

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    On what material things would you say depends the truth that all triangles have three sides?
    Ears to hear this truth. A brain to process and retain the information. Etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7
    And, how does the truth that all triangles have three sides depend on material things?
    Show me an immaterial triangle.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7
    ... You can't think if your brain is removed from what?
    Your skull.

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