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Thread: Alternatives to Abortion

  1. #31
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit the Coyote View Post
    Yes, it is, I'm not sure why he remained employed after making such a statement. I'm guessing it was only seen as an ethical exercise and not a promotion of actual infanticide. It did gather him a lot of bad press for it though.
    In any case, murder is murder whatever the age even if unborn or preborn.
    Bereishit - Genesis - Chapter 1

    1 In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth.
    :א בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ

    In beginning He created God the heavens and the earth

  2. #32
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    TOL insists that the only thing that should be done concerning abortion is calling it murder and condemning it in vain while the world moves on.
    They'd rather just let them all die than to perform an action that achieves something.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    ... to perform an action that achieves something.

    which is?

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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    Women MUST have control over their lives, their bodies, their health and their futures .

    based on the above statement, can you explain clearly and rationally, why women should not be allowed by law to kill their newborns, their infants, their toddlers if they wish to?

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  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    No, I don't "want to murder them ". I'm just realistic enough to know that women are going to have abortions anyway , whether they are legal or not . I don't want to force any woman to have an abortion . But I have absolutely no right to try to force any woman to bear a child against her will . Women MUST have control over their lives, their bodies, their health and their futures . Government ordered compulsory childbirth for pregnant women denies them all of these essential things .
    Those who believe making abortion illegal will "end" it are totally deluded . The only thing that will end is the legality of abortion .
    But not the women that get aborted!
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  9. #36
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    TOL insists that the only thing that should be done concerning abortion is calling it murder and condemning it in vain while the world moves on.
    They'd rather just let them all die than to perform an action that achieves something.
    Do you believe that it is murder? If it is, the murderers should be tried. Some say that it is wrong but less than murder. Yet it is the taking of an innocent life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Do you believe that it is murder? If it is, the murderers should be tried. Some say that it is wrong but less than murder. Yet it is the taking of an innocent life.
    Oh, you're just another one of them.

    Well have fun letting them all die because you're unwilling to do anything that isn't tantamount to putting millions of women in prison

  11. #38
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucifer View Post
    Oh, you're just another one of them.

    Well have fun letting them all die because you're unwilling to do anything that isn't tantamount to putting millions of women in prison
    No.

    I do not know that I want to be guilty of murdering an abortionist. According to the Torah there needs to be a judge and the family of the one murdered.

  12. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    No.

    I do not know that I want to be guilty of murdering an abortionist. According to the Torah there needs to be a judge and the family of the one murdered.

    it's a conundrum

    which are often afforded clarity by examining extreme examples



    for instance:

    a nazi patrol is rounding up jews to ship off to the concentration camps to be "processed"

    they are zeroing in on a group of jewish children you know to be hidden in a barn nearby - if they find them, the children will die

    you are a french (or polish, or dutch, or german) with the opportunity to kill the german soldiers in the patrol thus saving the jewish children

    you have no legal right to oppose the evil men who will kill the innocent children

    do you have a moral responsibility to act?

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  14. #40
    TOL Legend Jacob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    it's a conundrum

    which are often afforded clarity by examining extreme examples



    for instance:

    a nazi patrol is rounding up jews to ship off to the concentration camps to be "processed"

    they are zeroing in on a group of jewish children you know to be hidden in a barn nearby - if they find them, the children will die

    you are a french (or polish, or dutch, or german) with the opportunity to kill the german soldiers in the patrol thus saving the jewish children

    you have no legal right to oppose the evil men who will kill the innocent children

    do you have a moral responsibility to act?
    Abortionists should not be allowed work, but should be tried for the crimes, murders, that they have committed.

  15. #41
    Over 1000 post club The Horn's Avatar
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    Laws against murdering born people can be enforced . But laws against abortion are not enforceable . No country has ever been able do this or ever will . The proof ? More abortions happen in countries where it's illegal than where it's legal .
    For example, Brazil , ironically the world's largest Catholic nation . More abortions happen there than in America .
    The Brazilian government's efforts to stop abortion have been totally futile and will remain futile . Ironically , if they were to legalize abortion and do more to help poor women have access to contraceptives , the abortion rate would decrease markedly there .

  16. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    More abortions happen in countries where it's illegal than where it's legal .

    if they were to legalize abortion ... the abortion rate would decrease
    That is not true.
    In 1969 (four years before Roe v. Wade) abortion was illegal in America and the abortion rate was 57 women out of every 100,000 women.
    In 1977 (four years after Roe v. Wade) abortion was legal in America and the abortion rate was 2,640 women out of every 100,000 women.
    (source)

    The data includes the estimates from the Alan Guttmacher Institute (the research branch of Planned Parenthood).


    Comments on abortion statistics

    Currently, the Alan Guttmacher Institute is an important source for estimates of both legal and illegal abortions worldwide. AGI is an extension of an organization engaged in intense political lobbying for the completely unrestrained practice of abortion. High abortion rates are in their political (and financial) interests for a number of reasons. For example, high numbers of illegal abortions are an element of their rationalization for legalized abortion.

    Thus, when AGI estimates high rates of illegal abortions in the developing world these estimates bear scrutiny.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    Laws against murdering born people can be enforced .
    and yet people are still murdered

    But laws against abortion are not enforceable .
    sure they are - arrest, try, convict and execute abortionists

    No country has ever been able do this or ever will .
    we did it, before roe v wade

    it's simple

    arrest, try, convict and execute abortionists

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  20. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    Laws against murdering born people can be enforced . But laws against abortion are not enforceable . No country has ever been able do this or ever will . The proof ? More abortions happen in countries where it's illegal than where it's legal .
    For example, Brazil , ironically the world's largest Catholic nation . More abortions happen there than in America .
    The Brazilian government's efforts to stop abortion have been totally futile and will remain futile . Ironically , if they were to legalize abortion and do more to help poor women have access to contraceptives , the abortion rate would decrease markedly there .
    So murder of the unborn is not murder? No.

  21. #45
    Over 1000 post club The Horn's Avatar
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    No ! Only an infinitesimally tiny fraction of all the illegal abortions which took place before Roe were ever criminally prosecuted . Abortionists were almost NEVER arrested, tried and convicted before Roe. And what about the poor women who try to abort themselves ? Are we gong to rest and prosecute THEM ?

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