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Thread: Trinity Proof Scriptures

  1. #91
    Over 5000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
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    Is it just me or do non-Trinitarians just ignore much of the New Testament?
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Your yellow wheel chart uses these verses about God being the only Saviour:

    Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

    Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

    Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.


    If you rely upon only those verses about God being the only Saviour, it looks like 1 John 4:14 is speaking about God alone is both the Father and the Son because the Son is the Saviour of the world.


    1 John 4:14
    14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.



    The problem is that your chart completely ignores these verses:

    2 Kings 13:5 (And the Lord gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians: and the children of Israel dwelt in their tents, as beforetime.

    Nehemiah 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

    Isaiah 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the Lord because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.



    Unless you want to argue that the saviours that God sent in 2 Kings 13:5, Nehemiah 9:27, and Isaiah 19:20 are God Himself, you open up the interpretation of 1 John 4:14 to the natural interpretation that God is the Father and that God sent another being, the Son, to be the Saviour of the world instead of the tortured Trinitarian interpretation that the Father and the Son are the same being because the Father is the only Saviour and the Son is also the Saviour.
    You complicate it for no good reason.

    a. Christ and God are both called the Savior.

    b. There is only one Savior, not two.

    c. There is only one God, not two.

    Christ, therefore, is God.

    That's what the Bible shows us. Either you'll accept it all as true or you must reject the Bible.

    Believe it or don't.
    Last edited by musterion; January 18th, 2019 at 05:20 AM.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings musterion and Right Divider, As a child I was taught that there is One God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. As I grew into a teenager and beyond, I became aware of an obscure teaching called the Trinity. I did not then, nor even now many years later, have any understanding of such an obscure and contradictory teaching as the Trinity.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    Feel free to post when you have a point.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  7. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Feel free to post when you have a point.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So simple that a child can understand it.
    A child of Yah does understand the hierarchy as He is the Father...because children of Yah have kept the fifth commandment of honoring earthly fathers as NOT being equal to them...certainly not above those beloved fathers...

    His child knows He as Father actually has a name...that His Son also has a name...but His Holy Spirit does not...(there are other spirits up there too...also holy...)

    His child also knows His Son was only begotten which means there was a time prior when He was NOT begotten...

    His child also knows only one Son is the only BEGOTTEN Son and not His only Son...He was the only begotten Son because His other sons were created or born to be reborn as sons of His...

    His child also knows that His Son claims us as His brothers since we obey the will of His Father...we of course are NOT sons of the Son...but of the Father

  9. #96
    Gold level Subscriber JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    What a convoluted mess! trinitarians take 90% pagan philosophy,
    Please specify what I have said that comes from pagan philosophy.

    Otherwise, retract your false claim.

    and 10% twisted verses,
    Please specify which verses I have twisted instead of plainly reading.

    Otherwise, retract your false claim.

    and come up with a completely impossible theory.
    This is an argument from incredulity.

    Care to make an actual argument?

    Only SLIGHTLY worse is oneness!
    We're not talking about one-ness. We're talking about the trinity.

    Stop trying to poison the well.

    I was WELL aware of your confusion, and didn't want to waste more time than it took to point out your inconsistencies.
    If I'm being inconsistent, then I would prefer you point it out. That's how discussions on such matters work.

    You have stated two points that are clearly stated in the Scriptures: "There is only one God", and "The Father is the only true God".
    And?

    You have stated three gross untruths,
    Saying they are untrue doesn't make them so.

    which contradict the two truths you admit,
    In what way?

    Please explain.

    My position is that God is one Being (one WHAT) and three Persons (three WHOs), whereas He made man one being (WHAT) and one person (WHO).

    The Father is a Person.
    The Son is a Person.
    The Holy Spirit is a Person.

    Yet, those three Persons are one Being.

    One God. Three Persons. Those three Persons are coequally God.

    Look, if you're going to argue that my position contradicts itself, then you need to show how it contradicts itself from the perspective of my position, not how it contradicts itself from the perspective of your position, because our positions obviously contradict one another, and saying that mine is wrong because it contradicts yours is just begging the question.

    From my position, saying that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the only true God does not contradict itself, because it is foundational to my position. I and the other Trinitarians on this thread have shown you plenty of verses and very few, if any, sources other than the Bible to defend our position, yet you have provided no verses with which I disagree.

    [QUOTE](no matter how much you squeal in protest)....[/QUOTE

    If you're going to make accusations, I expect you to back them up by highlighting your evidence in my post by excerpting them from my post by using the quote tags.

    Otherwise, stop with the false accusations.

    and those three points have ZERO verses that State, Explain or Preach those tenets unique to trinity
    Aside from this being an argument from silence, a logical fallacy...

    As a whole, all of the verses that W2G posted at the beginning of the thread show Jesus to be God.

    AMR has also provided many verses that show how each of the three Persons are shown to be God throughout scripture.

    Musty has also provided verses that support the trinity position.

    So, in addition to your argument being fallacious, it's also false, as there ARE verses that support those "tenets."

    /oneness theories.
    Again, this is a thread specifically on the trinity. You don't have to mention oneness here.

    Jesus warned the Church regarding "false Christs".
    He also gave the law that says "do not bear false witness," which is what you're doing.

    Paul warned the Church regarding "another Jesus", and instructed us to safeguard our faith by sticking strictly to the "Jesus" THEY PREACHED!


    "Do not bear false witness."

    2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
    4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
    Good scripture.

    There are ZERO examples in the Scripture of ANY apostle explaining to ANY audience a trinitarian Jesus!!
    Straw man.

    We don't claim Jesus is triune.

    Remember what I said above?

    If you're going to argue that my position is contradictory, you need to do it from the perspective of my position, because doing it from yours doesn't get us anywhere.

    In other words, don't make straw man arguments.

    There are MANY examples of the apostles explaining the Jesus of Nazareth, the descendant of Adam and Eve, Abraham, Judah, David and Mary..... a man ordained by his God, and EXALTED by his God, GIVEN power and authority by his God.
    Which does not contradict our position.

    Because our position is more than just "Jesus is God"

    It's also "Jesus became a Man, and as a Man, His Father was His God."

    This is why I said to learn our position before you try to make arguments against it, because it seems that you have no idea what we teach, and as such, how could you ever hope to argue against a position if you don't know what that position teaches?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Please specify what I have said that comes from pagan philosophy.
    1) I said "trinitarians", I didn't say "you".
    2) as the rest of your post illustrates, you accept the notion of three persons in one Being, which is pure pagan fiction. Not ONE SINGLE VERSE states, explains or preaches this nonsense.
    3) there are SEVERAL concepts derived from purely pagan sources;
    A)the definition of "logos" as in Greek philosophy and theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning.
    B)the definition of "spirit", which pagan superstition defines as some kind of "immaterial, yet intelligent, being"
    C) the notion of being alive DURING death, which is in almost EVERY religion on the planet.... except the true Church.
    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    Please specify which verses I have twisted instead of plainly reading.
    Every verse we have discussed so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    This is an argument from incredulity.
    ANY extraordinary claim, must provide extraordinary evidence. The trinity has NONE.

    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    We're not talking about one-ness. We're talking about the trinity.
    You aren't, I am.
    When there are similarities, I am going to point that out. We two are not the only ones reading here.



    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    If I'm being inconsistent, then I would prefer you point it out. That's how discussions on such matters work.
    Go back and re-read our posts. I have pointed it out in every reply to you.

  12. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    I'd like to see your 'proof' Scriptures; although, you do know that you cannot prove a negative, right?
    That sounds familiar:
    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Trinitarian:Prove that the God is not a Trinity.

    Non-Trinitarian: You can't prove a negative.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Is it just me or do non-Trinitarians just ignore much of the New Testament?
    Trinitarians ignore more of the New Testament than non-Trinitarians do.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Trinitarians ignore more of the New Testament than non-Trinitarians do.
    You mean like this one?

    https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/1-6.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings musterion and Right Divider, As a child I was taught that there is One God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. As I grew into a teenager and beyond, I became aware of an obscure teaching called the Trinity. I did not then, nor even now many years later, have any understanding of such an obscure and contradictory teaching as the Trinity.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    The doctrine of the trinity is NOT obscure nor contradictory. It is clear throughout scripture; start to finish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  17. #102
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    You complicate it for no good reason.
    Not at all.
    I am not the one claiming that one is three and two is three and three is one and two is one.

    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    a. Christ and God are both called the Savior.
    Yes, there can be more than one savior.

    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    b. There is only one Savior, not two.
    One saviour that sends another saviour makes two saviours.

    Isaiah 19:20
    20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the Lord because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.



    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    c. There is only one God, not two.
    And yet, you keep trying to make God more than one.

    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Christ, therefore, is God.

    That's what the Bible shows us. Either you'll accept it all as true or you must reject the Bible.

    Believe it or don't.
    I can accept the entire Bible without accepting the extra-Biblical theory of the Trinity.
    That is the great thing about believing what the Bible actually says.
    Whether the Trinity is the truth or it is a mistake that was made with good intentions doesn't matter, since the Bible never says that you must believe in the Trinity to be saved.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Please specify what I have said that comes from pagan philosophy.

    Otherwise, retract your false claim.
    It is the part that comes from the teachings and beliefs of Augustine of Hippo.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    My memory seems to be a bit short lately.
    Can you remind me of whether you have ever responded to one of my posts without acting like an ignorant troll?
    That's your best volley, actress? Sit. You're a pathetic drone, who spits hypocritical trash, outside of both sides of your big, fat, mouth, wicked troll-ette wind pipe.

    Responded to your "post," you quip. Nice lie, habitual liar. Don't confuse your lack of spiritual discernment, due to that 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV sickness that you have, with any alleged failure on my part, to respond to your antichrist "posts"(loosely employed here).


    Can you dig it, troll-ette? Good.

    So there.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by clefty View Post

    Matthew 26:39
    39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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