User Tag List

Page 6 of 56 FirstFirst ... 345678916 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 836

Thread: Trinity Proof Scriptures

  1. #76
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
    Posts
    10,120
    Thanks
    1,794
    Thanked 1,770 Times in 1,297 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    523681
    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Dead serious.
    Your yellow wheel chart uses these verses about God being the only Saviour:

    Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

    Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

    Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.


    If you rely upon only those verses about God being the only Saviour, it looks like 1 John 4:14 is speaking about God alone is both the Father and the Son because the Son is the Saviour of the world.


    1 John 4:14
    14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.



    The problem is that your chart completely ignores these verses:

    2 Kings 13:5 (And the Lord gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians: and the children of Israel dwelt in their tents, as beforetime.

    Nehemiah 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

    Isaiah 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the Lord because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.



    Unless you want to argue that the saviours that God sent in 2 Kings 13:5, Nehemiah 9:27, and Isaiah 19:20 are God Himself, you open up the interpretation of 1 John 4:14 to the natural interpretation that God is the Father and that God sent another being, the Son, to be the Saviour of the world instead of the tortured Trinitarian interpretation that the Father and the Son are the same being because the Father is the only Saviour and the Son is also the Saviour.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  2. #77
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
    Posts
    10,120
    Thanks
    1,794
    Thanked 1,770 Times in 1,297 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    523681
    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Are you a Donny and Marie groupie, i.e., a Mormon?
    No, are you?
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  3. #78
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Heavenly Places
    Posts
    18,798
    Thanks
    149
    Thanked 13,288 Times in 9,164 Posts

    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147869
    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    No, are you?
    No.
    Saint John W

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to john w For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (January 17th, 2019)

  5. #79
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
    Posts
    10,120
    Thanks
    1,794
    Thanked 1,770 Times in 1,297 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    523681
    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    No.
    Then let's keep the discussion about how we interpret what the Bible actually says instead of resorting to slandering the other to build ourselves up in our own eyes.
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  6. #80
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Heavenly Places
    Posts
    18,798
    Thanks
    149
    Thanked 13,288 Times in 9,164 Posts

    Mentioned
    107 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147869
    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Then let's keep the discussion about how we interpret what the Bible actually says instead of resorting to slandering the other to build ourselves up in our own eyes.
    Why you subtil(Genesis 3:1 KJV), snake, hypocrite....That is slick, real slick....As slick as a viper, slithering down a drain pipe. "resorting to slandering the other to build ourselves up in our own eyes," you cry, in outrage, do you, punk?

    Vs.

    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    MAD believers only believe the thirteen letters of Paul and the second half of Acts.
    You in particular have shown that that is the only part of the Bible you believe.
    Now, which side of your face, do you want slapped, actress/actor? Well?

    Save it. And get saved.
    Saint John W

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to john w For Your Post:

    JudgeRightly (January 17th, 2019)

  8. #81
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    926
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 126 Times in 116 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    4802
    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    We Trinitarians believe there is only one God. He is Father, Son, Holy Spirit, three Persons.

    The Father is the only true God.
    The Son is the only true God.
    The Holy Spirit is the only true God.


    ...
    What a convoluted mess! trinitarians take 90% pagan philosophy, and 10% twisted verses, and come up with a completely impossible theory. Only SLIGHTLY worse is oneness!

    I was WELL aware of your confusion, and didn't want to waste more time than it took to point out your inconsistencies.

    You have stated two points that are clearly stated in the Scriptures: "There is only one God", and "The Father is the only true God".

    You have stated three gross untruths, which contradict the two truths you admit, (no matter how much you squeal in protest).... and those three points have ZERO verses that State, Explain or Preach those tenets unique to trinity/oneness theories.

    Jesus warned the Church regarding "false Christs".
    Paul warned the Church regarding "another Jesus", and instructed us to safeguard our faith by sticking strictly to the "Jesus" THEY PREACHED!

    2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
    4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.



    There are ZERO examples in the Scripture of ANY apostle explaining to ANY audience a trinitarian Jesus!!
    There are MANY examples of the apostles explaining the Jesus of Nazareth, the descendant of Adam and Eve, Abraham, Judah, David and Mary..... a man ordained by his God, and EXALTED by his God, GIVEN power and authority by his God.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Dartman For Your Post:

    genuineoriginal (January 17th, 2019)

  10. #82
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    15,280
    Thanks
    13,655
    Thanked 21,201 Times in 11,934 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147704

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Three distinct Persons, all referred to as God, and yet only one God, beside Whom there is no other.
    So simple that a child can understand it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Right Divider For Your Post:

    Aimiel (January 18th, 2019),JudgeRightly (January 17th, 2019),Tambora (January 22nd, 2019)

  12. #83
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    951
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 162 Times in 127 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    11751
    Greetings musterion and Right Divider,
    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Three distinct Persons, all referred to as God, and yet only one God, beside Whom there is no other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So simple that a child can understand it.
    As a child I was taught that there is One God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. As I grew into a teenager and beyond, I became aware of an obscure teaching called the Trinity. I did not then, nor even now many years later, have any understanding of such an obscure and contradictory teaching as the Trinity.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

  13. #84
    Over 2000 post club way 2 go's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,182
    Thanks
    2,093
    Thanked 1,421 Times in 804 Posts

    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    416310
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixed_Brown View Post
    I believe you have misunderstood they purpose of this thread.

    I didn't create it to debate every trinity or anti trinity scripture.

    I am basically asking trinitarians and non trinitarians which scriptures they think shouldn't be used in defense of the trinity.

    Please let me know you thoughts on the verses I stated rather that just posting dozens of scriptures.
    you said "I am not a trinitarian, so don't believe Jesus is YHWH."

    Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.

    talking about the trinity with you is pointless
    you have the cart before the horse first you need to recognize Jesus as God hence all the verses I quoted.




  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to way 2 go For Your Post:

    Aimiel (January 18th, 2019),john w (January 18th, 2019),JudgeRightly (January 18th, 2019),Right Divider (January 18th, 2019),Tambora (January 22nd, 2019)

  15. #85
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
    Posts
    10,120
    Thanks
    1,794
    Thanked 1,770 Times in 1,297 Posts

    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    523681
    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Why you subtil(Genesis 3:1 KJV), snake, hypocrite....That is slick, real slick....As slick as a viper, slithering down a drain pipe. "resorting to slandering the other to build ourselves up in our own eyes," you cry, in outrage, do you, punk?

    Vs.



    Now, which side of your face, do you want slapped, actress/actor? Well?

    Save it. And get saved.
    My memory seems to be a bit short lately.
    Can you remind me of whether you have ever responded to one of my posts without acting like an ignorant troll?
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

  16. #86
    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    6,493
    Thanks
    358
    Thanked 401 Times in 296 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    117553
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixed_Brown View Post
    My apologise Aimel. You are correct that only asserted the meaning of the text, and didn't provide evidence.
    It just that in my experience with most decussions I have heard with trinitarians this scripture has been brought up, then debunked so many times, that I thought that most would agree that it is not talking about Jesus and the Father being One in being.

    I am assuming you would agree with using this text then??

    Allow me to clarify why this could in no way be a trinity proof scripture.

    John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.”

    A Greek word used here for 'one' (hen). So what does this 'one' mean? We can either assume it means oneness of being or oneness in unity. These are our two options. Read the surrounding verses and you'll see the context doesn't reveal which one it should be. Which is correct then?

    Fortunately this isn't the only time Jesus uses this term.

    John 17:21- 22:  so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one

    Here Jesus again describes himself as being 'one' with God once more. It is exactly the same Greek word used for 'one' each time (hen). Here Jesus clearly states what he means when he uses this term. UNITY. He even makes a request that his followers be 'one' in the same way that he and the Father are 'one'.
    This can be oneness of being as his followers can't have a oneness of being with God or each other. This would make no literally no sense

    As you can see I do have an argument, so in light of this as a trinitarian would you agree that John 10:30 is clearly taken out of context when used as a proof scripture? Or would you continue to use it?

    Also you never mentioned 1 John 5:7. Would you agree this shouldn't be used?
    Yes, spurious texts can be discarded but I still believe that Jesus is One in EVERY way that can be imagined, in light of ALL The Holy Scriptures saying such. He is Mighty God, Everlasting Father and Prince of Peace, since The Fullness of The Godhead dwells in Him, bodily.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Aimiel For Your Post:

    way 2 go (January 18th, 2019)

  18. #87
    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    6,493
    Thanks
    358
    Thanked 401 Times in 296 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    117553
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    There is a really good reason EVERYONE forgets that one! I think very few trinitarians consider this stretch to be viable "evidence".
    I'll never forget it. I can feel the loathing of the hypocrites when Pilate left the sign up there.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

  19. #88
    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    6,493
    Thanks
    358
    Thanked 401 Times in 296 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    117553
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    1)It doesn't say "being" in the verse at all. So, I'm guessing you actually meant, "you didn't say WHY it doesn't mean they're only one being".
    2) MANY Scriptures prove they are NOT one being.
    3) Jesus himself explains, ALL believers are one, EVEN AS Jesus and his God are one.
    I'd like to see your 'proof' Scriptures; although, you do know that you cannot prove a negative, right? Sorry, but there's WAY TOO MANY Scriptures that prove He is God, in The Flesh.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Aimiel For Your Post:

    john w (January 18th, 2019),JudgeRightly (January 18th, 2019),way 2 go (January 18th, 2019)

  21. #89
    Over 750 post club
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    926
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 126 Times in 116 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    4802
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman
    1)It doesn't say "being" in the verse at all. So, I'm guessing you actually meant, "you didn't say WHY it doesn't mean they're only one being".
    2) MANY Scriptures prove they are NOT one being.
    3) Jesus himself explains, ALL believers are one, EVEN AS Jesus and his God are one.
    I'd like to see your 'proof' Scriptures; although, you do know that you cannot prove a negative, right? Sorry, but there's WAY TOO MANY Scriptures that prove He is God, in The Flesh.
    Well, let's work on it one point at a time ...
    John 10:30 does not include the word "being", correct?

  22. #90
    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    6,493
    Thanks
    358
    Thanked 401 Times in 296 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    117553
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Well, let's work on it one point at a time ...
    John 10:30 does not include the word "being", correct?
    I don't think it does, do you? It doesn't mean that they're one company or one institution or one country or one corporation, does it? He meant that they are One and the Same; I take it to mean: Being. If you take it another way, I can understand that, since you're obviously ignoring the over-running theme of the New Testament.
    Last edited by Aimiel; January 18th, 2019 at 05:36 AM.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Aimiel For Your Post:

    way 2 go (January 18th, 2019)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us