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Thread: Trinity Proof Scriptures

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Nothing will. The Bible doesn't teach "going to heaven" for any human except Jesus;
    Sure it does.

    For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.For we walk by faith, not by sight.We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV

    The Lord is God, right?

    Ergo, we will be with God.

    Heaven is God's abode.

    Ergo, we will be in Heaven.

    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but the he that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man which is in heaven.
    True. At this point in history, no man had ascended into heaven.

    Because the High Priest had not died yet.

    ...AND obeying the commandments our God has given to our Lord.
    Nope.

    I practically quoted, verbatim, Romans 10:9. It says nothing about obedience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Sure it does.

    For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.For we walk by faith, not by sight.We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. - 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV
    I highlighted and changed the color of crucial elements of the few verses you quoted. Notice Paul is waiting for that "habitation" to come FROM heaven. There is NO doubt, the reward IS in heaven.... but the Scriptures make it VERY clear, the righteous do NOT go there to get that reward ....... JESUS brings it "with him"!

    Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


    Phil 3:20-21 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that he has even to subject all things to himself.


    1 Cor 15:22-23 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,

    See, Paul KNEW he would sleep in death, completely unaware of the passage of time...... UNTIL Jesus RETURNS to the earth, and resurrects the righteous .... THEN Jesus will cloth ALL the righteous with that building/body/immortality promised/reserved FROM heaven.


    Rom 8:23-24 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body. 24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?


    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    The Lord is God, right?

    Ergo, we will be with God.
    Absolutely .... once God LEAVES heaven, and comes to earth to dwell with His sons and daughters .... the righteous WILL be with God.

    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    Heaven is God's abode....
    Only for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    Ergo, we will be in Heaven.
    Nope, Jesus is coming here ..... and more than 1,000 years later, so is our God. (Rev 19-22)

    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    True. At this point in history, no man had ascended into heaven.
    You mean at the point when Jesus was "in heaven"? See, John wrote this about 30 years AFTER Jesus ascended to heaven.

    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    Because the High Priest had not died yet.
    Acts 2 was written several days AFTER the High Priest had died, and ascended to his God, and our God, his Father, and our Father.
    Acts 2:34-35 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

    And, we know from MANY OT prophecies, AND from statements in the NT, that David is counted as righteous, "a man after God's own heart";


    Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:


    So, the Scriptures are clear, ALL those that have died are "asleep in the dust";

    Dan 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.


    .... and are "in the graves";

    John 5:28-29 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.



    There are MANY Scriptures that make it clear, ALL the righteous will be resurrected BACK to life at the same time.

    Heb 11:39-40 And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.


    Quote Originally Posted by JR
    Nope.


    I practically quoted, verbatim, Romans 10:9. It says nothing about obedience.
    Hmmm .... I've never HEARD of a Bible with just one verse!
    I think you got ripped off!

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Philippians 2:5-9
    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
    Thanks! That's one of the many, many Bible passages that DOES NOT TEACH what you teach, that

    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Christ Jesus left heaven, stripped Himself of His divinity, and was born as a man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Thanks! That's one of the many, many Bible passages that DOES NOT TEACH what you teach, that
    The idea that Jesus Christ was 100% divine before He came to earth and then was 0% divine on earth is RIDICULOUS.

    Where to people get these insane ideas?

    God is always God and cannot become "not God".

    (referring to GO, not you).
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    There are other gods, but I serve one God and one Lord.
    As an anti-Trinitarian, you deny that Jesus is YHWH.
    When you say "I serve...one Lord", to Whom are you referring by the word "Lord"? To Jesus?
    Now, when you say "I serve one God", to Whom are you referring by the word "God"? YHWH?
    Do you deny that YHWH is Lord?

    To say

    1. YHWH is a lord, and
    2. Jesus is a lord, and
    3. Jesus is not YHWH, and
    4. I serve YHWH, and
    5. I serve Jesus,

    is to say "I serve two lords".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    The idea that Jesus Christ was 100% divine before He came to earth and then was 0% divine on earth is RIDICULOUS.

    Where to people get these insane ideas?

    God is always God and cannot become "not God".

    (referring to GO, not you).
    Absolutely right, Right Divider!

    Well, wherever they do get them from, they do not get them from the Bible!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    I love this post!
    I hope you stick around.
    Thank you so much! Quite happy to hear that! I can say this much: I have no plans to not stick around.

    Stay tuned, and God bless!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7djengo7 View Post
    Thank you so much! Quite happy to hear that! I can say this much: I have no plans to not stick around.

    Stay tuned, and God bless!
    YAY!
    GOD bless you too.

    We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
    They already know monsters exist.
    We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    LOL ..... you need to read less Catholic "history", and more REAL history.


    .... wow ..... way to prove Chair's point ..... "Bishops"= "theologians"
    @chair said, "some think that you must be a theologian in order to get to heaven." I didn't "prove" that point at all. I was talking about who actually must know their theology, because it's their job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    And, according to Paul, SOME of the Bishops/Elders departed/fell away from the truth.
    Yes, some.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    A tiny minority, "few" have held to the truth from apostolic teaching, through today.
    Who? In my view, the papacy teaches the truth, and so do all those bishops who are in communion with the Pope, but who in your view are the bishops today who still teach the truth?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    No, that's one thing the protestants actually dialed back to Scriptural standards.
    Which scriptural standard has it that the office of Bishop is not fully valid today?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Close, but not quite. There are MANY teachers in the body...
    There are many quote-unquote "teachers," and there are many authentic teachers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    ... and EVERY teacher (including the apostles) is subject to the Berean principle;
    Acts 17:10-11 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
    11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

    MANY of the doctrines of the Catholic Church, the JWs, the Mormons, the Protestants .... fail this test.
    Who made you an authenticated teacher, who is authorized to judge the results of others' tests? This was my point. With the Bible alone being the sole source of valid authority, then in order to pronounce one view of the Bible as the correct one, and all others defective, you have to have some teaching authority yourself. So even in the case that the Bible alone is the sole source of teaching authority, there still must be someone who's interpretation of the Bible is the correct one, the standard, according to which anybody else's ideas of notions must be measured.

    "Sola scriptura" in this regard only works practically when we all agree on what the Scripture teaches. Since that's not reality, we require someone with valid teaching authority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    LOL .... again, you need to read more accurate histories.

    Did everyone agree with the Gnostics?
    No bishops did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Did everyone agree with the "trinity"?
    All the western bishops did, including the papacy, which received the Apostolic oral tradition from both Peter and from Paul, who both were martyred in Rome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    How many of the Councils were called BECAUSE of "heresy"???
    They precipitated due to disputes, and they did conclude with pronouncing the truth, distinguishing it from the heresy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    How many were murdered for disagreeing with "the Great Harlot"??
    What's the Great Harlot? For centuries all the Christians who were murdered /tortured cruelly were victims of pagans. Are pagans the Great Harlot?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    Acts 17:10-11 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
    When you search the Scripture, do you, or do you not, find "bishops?" They're also called "overseers" and "elders."
    "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

    @Nee_Nihilo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Idolater View Post
    @chair said, "some think that you must be a theologian in order to get to heaven." I didn't "prove" that point at all. I was talking about who actually must know their theology, because it's their job.
    It's EVERY believers Job to know their theology, and to check EVERYTHING they are told by ANY mortal leader, INCLUDING THE APOSTLES, with the Scriptures.

    Acts 17:10-13 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
    13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.


    Quote Originally Posted by ID
    In my view, the papacy teaches the truth, and so do all those bishops who are in communion with the Pope..
    Sorry, they fail the Beran test.

    Quote Originally Posted by ID
    but who in your view are the bishops today who still teach the truth?
    Any bishops/elders that are in harmony with the Scriptures.
    Quote Originally Posted by ID
    Which scriptural standard has it that the office of Bishop is not fully valid today?
    Of course "bishop/elder" is a fully valid office .... but Scripture doesn't agree with your conclusion that being IN that office makes the person "INFALLIBLE".... (hopefully, you are aware of the historical implications of that word) .

    Quote Originally Posted by ID
    There are many quote-unquote "teachers," and there are many authentic teachers.
    I see the Scriptures stating there ar MANY false teachers, and FEW authentic teachers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ID
    Who made you an authenticated teacher, who is authorized to judge the results of others' tests?
    It's not ME that judges the truth, it's the SCRIPTURES that determines what is truth. As an elder/bishop in my congregation, I am merely a follower of God's words. The congregation has asked me to do the works required of an elder/bishop.

    Quote Originally Posted by ID
    This was my point. With the Bible alone being the sole source of valid authority, then in order to pronounce one view of the Bible as the correct one, and all others defective, you have to have some teaching authority yourself.
    Not at all. The Scriptures are the authority.


    Quote Originally Posted by ID
    So even in the case that the Bible alone is the sole source of teaching authority, there still must be someone who's interpretation of the Bible is the correct one,
    No mortal human.

    Jesus, and the Scriptures are the standard, and EVERY believer is commanded to seek, knock and ask, checking EVERY "answer" with the Scriptures.

    2 Tim 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Rom 2:10-11 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    As an outsider, I find the discussion a bit amusing, in a sad sort of way. I find it curious that some think that you must be a theologian in order to get to heaven.

    If a man does good, and prays to God every day, who cares if he understands the 'structure' of God, or gets some other theological point wrong?
    Jews don't believe in Heaven to begin with, so why are you even replying...?

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