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Thread: Baptised babies can still be killed, or they can still burn in hell for their sins.

  1. #31
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capricorn View Post
    This will happen at the End of Time.

    The End Times is the here and now, but it also refers to the Great Tribulation in the future when entire nations will be destroyed.
    You should have made that clear in your initial post.

  2. #32
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    If all babies were "innocent" and worthy of Eternal Life without need of a savior then God who is willing that all men be saved would just slay us all, every one, before we reach that magical moment when we are no longer innocent and in danger.
    So in what way are infants not innocent?

    The Lord Jesus' words indicate that little children are innocent and if they die at that point in their lives will not go to hell:

    "Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them. Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these'" (Mt.19:13-14).

  3. #33
    Journeyman binyamin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Acts 2:34-35 KJV
    (34) For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
    (35) Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

    I remember one time in a Southern Baptist church when they came to that part of the scripture, and they simply read it while omitting the "NOT" and kept right on going as if nothing had happened...

    That Scripture is showing that David did not speak of himself, since he went into Abrahams bosom/ paradise awaiting the Lord to take Him to "heaven", but that was a clear prophecy of the HaMashiach (Christ). Certainly you don't think David was banished into sheol.

  4. #34
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    FALSE!

    In fact, if an infant dies, baptized or not, he will not burn in hell.

    If you think that any of them can then you do not worship the same God that I do because He is a God of love and grace and would never send an innocent child to hell.
    Death proves sin. No one who dies is innocent. No innocent dies. Those sinful children who die are either elect, predestined to be HIS bride or non-elect, condemned already. It has nothing to do with innocence. Only one innocent child has been born in all of earth's history.

    And, I agree, baptism does not save anyone from any sin at all.
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  5. #35
    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these'" (Mt.19:13-14).
    such as these' cannot refer to innocence as they die and death is paid only for sin. Find some other attribute of children to hang on this verse, innocence is denied.
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

  6. #36
    Over 5000 post club oatmeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capricorn View Post
    According to Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20 it is clear that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS at all, but everyone is guilty and culpable and liable to be killed for their sins against God or sins against their fellow humans: Ezekiel 18:4, Luke 10:28.

    This includes baptised children who have no exemption from the rule described in Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

    Nowhere in the Bible does it say that “baptised children will be saved due to their (alleged) innocence”.

    Therefore, baptised children would still burn in hell, since the Bible has made it clear that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS at all: Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

    True or false?


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    Babies are without God and without hope as much as anyone who has not done Romans 10:9-10.

    As is pointed out in another post, young children of believing parents although too young to understand and do Romans 10:9-10 are sanctified by a believing parent or parents

    There is no hellfire for eternal punishment, it is garbage dump where flames consumes garbage, not live humans.

    The flames last as long as there is yet garbage to burn, till all is consumed, thus it is referred to everlasting, for it lasts ever as long as not all has been consumed
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    In the passage above King David was referring to a young child that was born out of an affair he had. David fasted in hopes to keep the child alive but after the child already died David said “I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me”. So he is saying that the child won’t return to earth, but David will “go to him” in heaven when he dies. That looks like a pretty conclusive Scripture saying that the unborn and young children who die will be with the Lord.
    No, the passage is specific reference about David and his child, but there is no explicit statement in the Bible to say that this is a “general rule” which applies to “all people”.

    Your interpretation is simply by way of conjecture, which is not a valid interpretation of the Scripture.


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  8. #38
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capricorn View Post
    According to Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20 it is clear that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS at all, but everyone is guilty and culpable and liable to be killed for their sins against God or sins against their fellow humans: Ezekiel 18:4, Luke 10:28.

    This includes baptised children who have no exemption from the rule described in Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

    Nowhere in the Bible does it say that “baptised children will be saved due to their (alleged) innocence”.

    Therefore, baptised children would still burn in hell, since the Bible has made it clear that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS at all: Romans 3:10, 23 and Ecclesiastes 7:20.

    True or false?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone.chapel View Post
    No, the passage is specific reference about David and his child, but there is no explicit statement in the Bible to say that this is a “general rule” which applies to “all people”.

    Your interpretation is simply by way of conjecture, which is not a valid interpretation of the Scripture.


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    What? Are you here to finish what you started?

  9. #39
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    This sounds like the undertones of original sin. Under that concept from the Catholic point of view. We are born guilty. Baptism washes that stain away. But want sent the original sin Adam and Eve’s punishment banishment from the Garden, and removal of immortality? The result was death. So in my mind the argument is as false because an infant has not reach the age of understanding.


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    Over 500 post club ttruscott's Avatar
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    We are saved in righteousness, not innocence.
    I Champion GOD’s holiness:
    - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
    - All evil is creature-created.

    I Champion Our Free will:
    - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

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