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  1. #16
    TOL Subscriber musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    But don't you know, brother musty, that the details of the bible do not matter, and it all says the same thing?

    As that great American President, Jimmy Carter said, after he confessed that he had "lust in his heart,"...

    "To me it was like breathing," he said of the term. “(A)ll of us [Southern Baptists] considered ourselves to be born again."


    Of course, his answer to the "Energy Crisis," was to turn down our thermostats, and wear a sweater, at night. His daughter, Amy, and perhaps his brother, Billy, after a few "Billy Beers," advised him...





    Unplug your TV sets, wear sweaters, fire up your fire place, and turn off your A/C, and you will be "born again!!" Puh-rayyyyzzz, Gaaaaaawd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Give me an "Amen," saints, and the Laaaawd, a shout of puh-raayzzzz!"
    You and your MADists always treating the Bible like a Cobb salad...croutons over here, there's the bacon, blue cheese over there, cherry tomatoes at 11:00, everything all nice and tidy, separate and distinct, divided up.

    Problem is, everyone knows the things of God are not all nice and tidy. Messy, even. God loves a good mess, brother John! That's in the good book somewhere!

    Everyone knows the Bible is not a salad but really more of a stew or a gumbo. It's God's goulash, brother John! where it all blends together since, as you say, it's ultimately all the same anyway.

    Tell the truth, brother John. Would you rather eat the sweet words of God with a spoon or with a fork? Well how do you eat honey? WITH A SPOON, not with a salad fork! That'd be just ridiculous.

    QED Quod Erat Demosaladum
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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  3. #17
    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    references?
    And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;


    And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


    And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


    Being proud of being an un-believer is not a good thing.
    No Bueno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimiel View Post
    And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;


    And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


    And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


    Being proud of being an un-believer is not a good thing.
    Like I said your reading is not contextual.

    The tongue in these scripture is not gibberish you Pentecostals pretend to understand.

    They are actually understandable to the audience.
    Last edited by meshak; January 12th, 2019 at 08:47 PM.

  5. #19
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    I missed where Paul asserted, "born again."
    The word "rebirth" means "born again."

    "But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior"
    (Titus 3:4-6).

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  7. #20
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The word "rebirth" means "born again."

    "But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior"
    (Titus 3:4-6).
    So Paul waits for YEARS to put this vitally important doctrine in one of his last epistles?
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  9. #21
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    So Paul waits for YEARS to put this vitally important doctrine in one of his last epistles?
    He knew something that you don't know and that is the fact that those in the Body of Christ will return to the earth with the Lord Jesus when He sets up His earthly kingdom after the rapture and only those who are born again can enter that kingdom (Jn.3:3,5):

    "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever"
    (1 Thess.4:17).

    Besides that Paul told the believer in Corinth that they were born through the gospel which he preached to them:

    "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).

    That matches what Peter said about being "born again":

    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

    The Jews who lived under the law received the new birth and were therefore and saved by faith alone, just like the members of the Body of Christ:

    "He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of Godchildren born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God" (Jn.1:11-13).

    Those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith just like those in the Body of Christ:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"
    (Ro.4:16).

    Do you believe that "works" and "grace" are compatible?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    You and your MADists always treating the Bible like a Cobb salad...croutons over here, there's the bacon, blue cheese over there, cherry tomatoes at 11:00, everything all nice and tidy, separate and distinct, divided up.

    Problem is, everyone knows the things of God are not all nice and tidy. Messy, even. God loves a good mess, brother John! That's in the good book somewhere!

    Everyone knows the Bible is not a salad but really more of a stew or a gumbo. It's God's goulash, brother John! where it all blends together since, as you say, it's ultimately all the same anyway.

    Tell the truth, brother John. Would you rather eat the sweet words of God with a spoon or with a fork? Well how do you eat honey? WITH A SPOON, not with a salad fork! That'd be just ridiculous.

    QED Quod Erat Demosaladum
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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  12. #23
    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    He knew something that you don't know and that is the fact that those in the Body of Christ will return to the earth with the Lord Jesus when He sets up His earthly kingdom after the rapture and only those who are born again can enter that kingdom (Jn.3:3,5):

    "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever"
    (1 Thess.4:17).

    Besides that Paul told the believer in Corinth that they were born through the gospel which he preached to them:
    "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).

    That matches what Peter said about being "born again":
    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

    The Jews who lived under the law received the new birth and were therefore and saved by faith alone, just like the members of the Body of Christ:
    "He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of Godóchildren born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husbandís will, but born of God" (Jn.1:11-13).

    Those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith just like those in the Body of Christ:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"
    (Ro.4:16).

    Do you believe that "works" and "grace" are compatible?
    Instead of DODGING my question with an attempted REDIRECTION to some of your pet verses.

    Please be honest and answer it.

    • YOU are the one that cannot show Paul teaching that the body of Christ must be "born again" (since Paul never uses that term).
    • YOU couldn't find it anywhere, so you went to TITUS which is one of Paul's LAST epistles.
    • YOU equated "rebirth" in TITUS with being "born again".
    • YOU think that this vital doctrine is so important that Paul waits until one of his LAST epistles to express it.

    How is that possible?
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  14. #24
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The word "rebirth" means "born again."

    "But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior"
    (Titus 3:4-6).
    "born again" is a specific term, its origins dealing with the nation Israel, in the OT. Paul never employs that term, as pertaining to the boc. Why would you? Why should you? Why do you? Unpack it for us all. Why? An addiction? A life long obsession? You're bored?
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    You and your MADists always treating the Bible like a Cobb salad...croutons over here, there's the bacon, blue cheese over there, cherry tomatoes at 11:00, everything all nice and tidy, separate and distinct, divided up.

    Problem is, everyone knows the things of God are not all nice and tidy. Messy, even. God loves a good mess, brother John! That's in the good book somewhere!

    Everyone knows the Bible is not a salad but really more of a stew or a gumbo. It's God's goulash, brother John! where it all blends together since, as you say, it's ultimately all the same anyway.

    Tell the truth, brother John. Would you rather eat the sweet words of God with a spoon or with a fork? Well how do you eat honey? WITH A SPOON, not with a salad fork! That'd be just ridiculous.

    QED Quod Erat Demosaladum
    But Gaaaaaawd does not change, brother musty!!!!!!!This explains why your seed planting, is resulting in lack of growth,bro, falling on hard ground! Kuh-laim your miracle today!!! Guh-low-ree to Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd!

    Saint John W

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  18. #26
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    "born again" is a specific term, its origins dealing with the nation Israel, in the OT.
    The regeneration spoken of in the OT refers to the "nation" of Israel, not individual Jews.

    On the other hand, Paul speaks of a "rebirth" which belongs to those in the Body of Christ and results in salvation:

    "He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit"
    (Titus 3:5).

    The word "rebirth" is translated from the Greek word paliggenesia, which is the combination of palin and genesis.

    Palin[/I] means "joined to verbs of all sorts,it denotes renewal or repetition of the action" (Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek - English Lexicon of the New Testament, 475).

    Genesis means "used of birth, nativity" (Ibid., 112).

    So when we combine the two words the meaning is a repetition of a birth. Therefore, when Paul used the Greek word translated "rebirth" to describe his salvation experience he was speaking of a repetition of a birth or being "born again."

    It is obvious that Paul is not referring to a "physical" rebirth, or the repetition of one's physical birth.

    You cannot enter the kingdom of God UNLESS you are born again (Jn.3:3,5).

  19. #27
    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The regeneration spoken of in the OT refers to the "nation" of Israel, not individual Jews.

    On the other hand, Paul speaks of a "rebirth" which belongs to those in the Body of Christ and results in salvation:

    "He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit"
    (Titus 3:5).

    The word "rebirth" is translated from the Greek word paliggenesia, which is the combination of palin and genesis.

    Palin[/I] means "joined to verbs of all sorts,it denotes renewal or repetition of the action" (Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek - English Lexicon of the New Testament, 475).

    Genesis means "used of birth, nativity" (Ibid., 112).

    So when we combine the two words the meaning is a repetition of a birth. Therefore, when Paul used the Greek word translated "rebirth" to describe his salvation experience he was speaking of a repetition of a birth or being "born again."

    It is obvious that Paul is not referring to a "physical" rebirth, or the repetition of one's physical birth.

    You cannot enter the kingdom of God UNLESS you are born again (Jn.3:3,5).
    Non responsive. "born again" is a specific term, its origins dealing with the nation Israel, in the OT. Paul never employs that term, as pertaining to the boc. Why would you? Why should you? Why do you? Unpack it for us all. Why? An addiction? A life long obsession? You're bored?

    And the Lord Jesus Christ was not addressing you, in the verses you quoted.

    "Marvel not that I say unto THEE [i.e., Nicodemus-my note], YE [i.e., the nation Israel-my note] must be born again.”

    Exodus 4 KJV
    22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

    Deuteronomy 32 KJV
    9 For the Lord’s portion is his people;Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
    10 He found him in a desert land,and in the waste howling wilderness;he led him about, he instructed him,he kept him as the apple of his eye..............18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful,and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
    Last edited by john w; January 13th, 2019 at 10:56 AM.
    Saint John W

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  21. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The regeneration spoken of in the OT refers to the "nation" of Israel, not individual Jews.

    On the other hand, Paul speaks of a "rebirth" which belongs to those in the Body of Christ and results in salvation:

    "He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit"
    (Titus 3:5).

    The word "rebirth" is translated from the Greek word paliggenesia, which is the combination of palin and genesis.

    Palin[/I] means "joined to verbs of all sorts,it denotes renewal or repetition of the action" (Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek - English Lexicon of the New Testament, 475).

    Genesis means "used of birth, nativity" (Ibid., 112).

    So when we combine the two words the meaning is a repetition of a birth. Therefore, when Paul used the Greek word translated "rebirth" to describe his salvation experience he was speaking of a repetition of a birth or being "born again."

    It is obvious that Paul is not referring to a "physical" rebirth, or the repetition of one's physical birth.

    You cannot enter the kingdom of God UNLESS you are born again (Jn.3:3,5).
    And this "born again/rebirth" doctrine is so important that Paul doesn't even mention it until near the end of his ministry?

    Please explain how that is possible Jerry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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  23. #29
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Please be honest and answer it.
    I will answer what you said here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    YOU are the one that cannot show Paul teaching that the body of Christ must be "born again" (since Paul never uses that term).
    He uses the word "rebirth" and that means exactly what the term "born again" means:

    "He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit"
    (Titus 3:5).

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    YOU couldn't find it anywhere, so you went to TITUS which is one of Paul's LAST epistles.
    So are you arguing that because we find it in one of Paul's last epistles that we can't believe what he said there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    YOU equated "rebirth" in TITUS with being "born again".
    Be honest and tell us why someone who experiences a "rebirth" has not been "born of God."

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    YOU think that this vital doctrine is so important that Paul waits until one of his LAST epistles to express it.
    Paul spoke about those in the Body who were begotten by the gospel (1 Cor.4:15) but you evidently do not even understand what the word "begotten" means.

    Please be honest and answer the following evidence that proves that those in the Body must be "born again" in order to enter the kingdom. The Apostle Paul said that once the saints are caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air that they will "forever" be with Him:

    "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever" (1 Thess.4:17).

    Since those in the Body will be with the Lord Jesus "forever" after they are caught up then that means that they will be with Him when He returns to usher in the earthly kingdom. And only those who are "born of God" can see that kingdom, much less enter it:

    "Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again...Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit" (Jn.3:3,5).

    Please be honest and answer these facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Please be honest and answer the following evidence that proves that those in the Body must be "born again" in order to enter the kingdom.
    Enter the kingdom of God, on earth, in spiritually regenerate, resurrected bodies, as part of the benefits of the provisions of the NC, promised to the believing remnant of the nation Israel, according to prophecy-has NADA to do, with the boc.

    And the master, told Nick, in his John 3 expounding, of this "born again" requirement, as a future expectation, not "immediate," as regeneration/rebirth applies immediatelty to respective members of the boc:

    John 7 KJV

    37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


    Bible blenders: It all says the same thing!!!!! Wait, tarry for the Holy Ghost!!!!
    Saint John W

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