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Thread: The Gift of Eternal Life

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    The Gift of Eternal Life

    Here we read that "eternal life" is a gift:

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Ro.6:23).

    In the following verse we read that those who received the Apostle John's first epistle were told that they already possessed eternal life in the Lord Jesus:

    "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son" (1 Jn.5:11).

    Despite the fact that this eternal life which John said that these believers had received is a "gift" there are many posters on this site who insist that in order for these Jews to receive this gift they had to endure to the end to receive this eternal life. If they are right then perhaps they will tell us why John told them that they already have eternal life in the Son.

    These same people also say that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved and receive this gift of eternal life apart from "works." But they never explain why these believers had to do "works" in order to receive this gift. They don't seem to realize that if one has to work to get the reward the reward cannot be classified as a "gift."

    In fact, the Savior Himself told the Jews who lived under the law that the gift is received by faith and faith alone:

    "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).

    Those who teach that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from "works" never give us their interpretation of the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words at John 5:24.

    Why not?

    Probably for the same reason that they will avoid this thread like the plague.
    Last edited by Jerry Shugart; January 11th, 2019 at 07:17 PM.

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    There can be no doubt whatsoever that most,including myself, will run and hide, and avoid this "thread" like the plague.
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    There can be no doubt whatsoever that most,including myself, will run and hide, and avoid this "thread" like the plague.
    I didn't realize that there are actually brave people like you in the Neo-MAD community. But how brave? Are you brave enough to give us your interpretation of the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words here?:

    "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life"
    (Jn.5:24).

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I didn't realize that there are actually brave people like you in the Neo-MAD community. But how brave? Are you brave enough to give us your interpretation of the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words here?:

    "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life"
    (Jn.5:24).
    It is clear, there can be no doubt whatsoever, that I am running and hiding, and engaging in character assassinations, "personal" attacks, and am a coward, not brave enough, never explaining anything.
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    It is clear, there can be no doubt whatsoever, that I am running and hiding, and engaging in character assassinations, "personal" attacks, and am a coward, not brave enough, never explaining anything.
    It is clear and there is no doubt whatsoever that you didn't even try to give us your interpretation of the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words in this verse:

    "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life"
    (Jn.5:24).

    Are you brave enough to tell is why? Perhaps that one is too difficult for you so perhaps you can give us your interpretation of the meaning of His words here?:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life"
    (Jn.6:63).

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    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    They don't seem to realize that if one has to work to get the reward the reward cannot be classified as a "gift."
    Read through the definitions of "gift" and see if you can figure out where you made your mistake.


    Webster's Dictionary 1828

    Gift
    GIFT, noun [from give.] A present; any thing given or bestowed; any thing, the property of which is voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation; a donation. It is applicable to any thing movable or immovable.

    1. The act of giving or conferring.

    2. The right or power of giving or bestowing. The prince has the gift of many lucrative offices.

    3. An offering or oblation.

    If thou bring thy gift to the altar. Matthew 5:23.

    4. A reward.

    Let thy gifts be to thyself. Daniel 5:17.

    5. A bribe; any thing given to corrupt the judgment.

    Neither take a gift; for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise. Deuteronomy 16:19.

    6. Power; faculty; some quality or endowment conferred by the author of our nature; as the gift of wit; the gift of ridicule.

    GIFT, verb transitive To endow with any power or faculty.


    Read through the definitions of "reward" and see if you can figure out where you made your mistake.

    Webster's Dictionary 1828

    Reward
    REWARD', verb transitive a as aw. [[Latin re, denoting return.]

    To give in return, either good or evil.

    Thou hast rewarded me good, whereas I have rewarded thee evil. 1 Samuel 24:19.

    Hence, when good is returned for good, reward signifies to repay, to recompense, to compensate. When evil or suffering is return for injury or wickedness, reward signifies to punish with just retribution, to take vengeance on, according to the nature of the case.

    I will render vengeance to my enemies; and will reward them that hate me. Deuteronomy 32:41.

    The Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father, with his angels, and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:27.

    In the latter passage, reward signifies to render with good and evil.

    REWARD', noun

    1. Recompense, or equivalent return for good done, for kindness, for services and the like. Rewards may consist of money, goods or any return of kindness or happiness.

    The laborer is worthy of his reward 1 Timothy 5:18.

    Great is your reward in heaven. Matthew 5:12.

    REWARDs and punishments presuppose moral agency, and something voluntarily done, well or ill; without which respect, though we may receive good, it is only a benefit and not a reward

    2. The fruit of men's labor or works.

    The dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward Ecclesiastes 9:5.

    3. A bribe; a gift to pervert justice. Deuteronomy 27:25.

    4. A sum of money offered for taking or detecting a criminal, or for recovery of any thing lost.

    5. Punishment; a just return of evil or suffering for wickedness.

    Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked. Psalms 91:8.

    6. Return in human applause. Mat 6.

    7. Return in joy and comfort. Psalms 19:11.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    It is clear and there is no doubt whatsoever that you didn't even try to give us your interpretation of the meaning of the Lord Jesus' words in this verse:

    "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life"
    (Jn.5:24).

    Are you brave enough to tell is why? Perhaps that one is too difficult for you so perhaps you can give us your interpretation of the meaning of His words here?:

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life"
    (Jn.6:63).
    It is clear, there can be no doubt whatsoever, evidently, I am running and hiding, and engaging in character assassinations, "personal" attacks, and am a coward, not brave enough, never explaining anything, and I am not manning up, by giving an interpretation, as I have no answer,and I am avoiding answering this, like the plague, and am denying the clear words of (fill in the blank).

    What was the subject again?
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Read through the definitions of "gift" and see if you can figure out where you made your mistake.
    So are you saying that a "gift" must be earned by "works" of one kind or another? Those of us who believe and have received the spirit which is of God know that the gift of eternal life is "freely" given to us:

    "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God" (1 Cor.2:12).

    If you think that anyone must do "works" in order to be saved by the grace of God and receive the gift of eternal life then you do not believe the "gospel of grace" because you do not even understand it.

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    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So are you saying that a "gift" must be earned by "works" of one kind or another? Those of us who believe and have received the spirit which is of God know that the gift of eternal life is "freely" given to us:

    "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God" (1 Cor.2:12).
    If you want to use Paul's words when you think they support your beliefs, do not reject Paul's words when they oppose your beliefs.

    Romans 2:5-11
    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    If you think that anyone must do "works" in order to be saved by the grace of God and receive the gift of eternal life then you do not believe the "gospel of grace" because you do not even understand it.
    You forget that the servant is not greater than the master.

    Luke 17:7-10
    7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
    8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
    9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
    10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.


    You think that you will can refuse to do "works" and will still be treated as a believer?
    Jesus said that those who refuse to do "works" will be appointed a portion with the unbelievers.

    Luke 12:45-47
    45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
    46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
    47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    If you want to use Paul's words when you think they support your beliefs, do not reject Paul's words when they oppose your beliefs.

    Romans 2:5-11
    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
    Receiving eternal life by works is only if a person "continues" in good works. But since all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God all people are dependent on grace.

    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    You forget that the servant is not greater than the master.

    Luke 17:7-10
    7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
    8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
    9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
    10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.


    You think that you will can refuse to do "works" and will still be treated as a believer?
    Have you not yet learned to distinguish one's "service" for the LORD from one's salvation. Here Paul and those with him tells exactly how a person is saved:

    "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

    The answer given there is either true or false. I say that it is true but you say that it is false. In regard to one's "service" for the LORD our "works" will be judged but not in regard to salvation:

    "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire"
    (1 Cor.3:13-15).

    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Jesus said that those who refuse to do "works" will be appointed a portion with the unbelievers.

    Luke 12:45-47
    45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
    46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
    47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
    The first servant was never saved in the first place because the Lord Jesus said that those who believe have eternal life" (Jn.5:24) and He also said that those to whom He gives eternal life shall never perish (Jn.10:28).

    Now tell me why I should believe that something other than faith is required for salvation with the following words in view:

    "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    It is clear, there can be no doubt whatsoever, evidently, I am running and hiding
    You run like a girly girl!

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    There can be no doubt whatsoever, that you run like a sissy.



    Check.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    You run like a girly girl!
    And there ya go....asking for it.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    And there ya go....asking for it.
    Just trying to drum up a little interest in this thread. Why don't you address what I wrote in my initial post on this thread, glorydaz?

    john w showed that he is brave but not brave enough to actually address my points. Are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Just trying to drum up a little interest in this thread. Why don't you address what I wrote in my initial post on this thread, glorydaz?

    john w showed that he is brave but not brave enough to actually address my points. Are you?
    It isn't a question of bravery, Jerry. It's a matter of whether there will be any profit in engaging you on this topic. You start right off with 1 John 5 and speak of eternal life, but John is quite clear he considers Jesus as eternal life.

    1 John 1:1-2
    1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us; )

    So, when you try to make this read the same as the gift of God is eternal life, you're doing a whole lot of reaching.

    1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

    This is like seeing the word "repent" and attempting to claim every use is the same.

    Romans 6:23
    For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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