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Thread: Satan and the Gospel

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are concerned about things that God has already dealt with in Jesus Christ.
    Dealt with what, viper? Sins?

    As you've been asked, by me, others, over 100 times: Sin is the transgression of the law, as you've been shown, from the bible. You assert that the law was destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago. So, tell all of TOL, how you, anyone, can be charged with sins, having a sin debt, for sins in the future, by definition, if there is no law to be broken, that would mark the transgression, sin.


    Go ahead, Pate.


    Tell us how Christ can die for your/anyone's sins, paying the penalty for them, "justice served," by dying on your/our place, if no sin debt is "created."

    Go ahead.

    Answer, Pate: How can Christ die for your/our sins,IN THE FUTURE, if, according to you, the law that defines sin, transgression, was eliminated, destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago?

    Answer. Pate: How can sin still exist for unbelievers,now, if the law that defines sin, transgression, was eliminated, destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago? No law, no transgression, demon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" then who needs the law? This is why it has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
    No, you argue Christ did not die for our sins, and that we are complete in Christ, because He destroyed his own law.

    Saved ones don't believe your satanic perversion of "the Gospel," satanic trash, from the pits of hell, as you assert that it is not that we are in Christ, perfect, because we believe Christ died for our sins, our sin debt, taking our judgment/condemnation, SO THAT JUSTICE IS SERVED, taking our place, but it is your satanic perversion, that He died to destroy, make void, His own law, so that there is no sin debt, for which He might die, and no need to take our place, as a curse, being judged, condemned in our place, as there is no law to condemn, to judge, and create a sin debt, charge against us.

    No, there is a forever existing, holy, good, spiritual law God, deceiver, that judges/condemns each one of us; the reason we are saved, deceiver, the reason we are in Christ, "perfect,"is because we trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, that Christ died for our sins, paying the sin debt, penalty, in our place, and suffering the judgment/condemnation/curse of HIS OWN EXISTING LAW, IN OUR PLACE=justice, the tenant of the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement. You deny that, satanically asserting that the solution is to make void, destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, for which He might die, and that no condemnation/judgment is possible, with no law to judge/condemn.



    Demon.




    Again-you reject that Christ died for our sins-the devil child never cites that, the gospel of Christ, in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-never. And why is that? He cannot, as sin is the transgression of the law, and if there is no law, to define sin, there is no sin/sin debt/transgression, for which Christ might die.

    This is what you believe, liar:

    Pate asserts that Christ did not die for his/anyone's sins, 2000+ years ago, as they were all in the future, by definition, as He did not die to pay for his/anyone's sin debt, penalty, IOU, which IS INCURRED BY BREAKING GOD'S OWN EXISTING LAW, by definition, as there is no law defining the transgression/offense/sin, and resulting penalty, for which He might die, and Christ did not take his/anyone's place, in judgment, condemnation, AS HIS/OUR SUBSTITUTE, taking that judgment/condemnation/wrath, in our place, as there is no law, to bring about judgment, condemnation, wrath. He denies that Christ died for our sins, and denies the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, asserting that God's "solution" is to destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, or judgment/condemnation possible. Thus, the LORD God could have destroyed His own law, from the third heaven, not needing to send His Christ to die. And devil child Pate cannot give us one scripture, as to how the Lord Jesus Christ's destroying of the law affects justice, as Pate perverts God's justice, as no scripture testifies to how destroying the law maintains, affirms the justice of God-he made it up. The scripture does testify as to why the Saviour need die, by blood, in our place.........propitiation, reconciliation, identification, substitution.....Justice served.


    Pate rejects all of that, in his wicked perverting the gospel of Christ, as a pawn, shill of the devil.
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    This is why it has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
    Paul plainly says that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 3:13.

    =word=for-word spam, that I/others, have refuted, with chapter, and verse, as the wicked deceiver changes words in the bible, replacing them with his Pate-ianity words, adds words to the bible, and butchers the meaning of words.


    Pate calls Paul a liar, a false apostle, a deceiver, as Pate asserts that this should not be in the bible...



    Romans 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


    ...or revises it to:

    Pate-ianity: Do we then make void the law through faith? yea, we do!!! The law is void.


    You wicked deceiver, and your spamming Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 3:13, in isolation, satanically "interpreting" them, is from the pits of hell.

    No, satanic shill, when we talk about "nailing it to his cross", that is not the law itself, but the curse of the law, or the penalties for disobeying the existing law. It was the penalty of the broken law which He rendered inoperative, not the law itself.

    In that time period, when a man was charged with a crime, the charges against him were written down on papyrus. If he was found not guilty, the papyrus was then washed down with water, removing or blotting out those charges against him, to confirm his acquittal. This abolished the written charges against the man. This is the what is referred to in "blotting out of ordinances against us" that were nailed to the cross, not the law itself.

    The holy law is still God's standard of righteousness and all the requirements for the broken law remain unchanged, apart from Him.The certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross, not the law.The penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay was nailed--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty.

    No, it does not "plainly say" that God's perfect law was abolished, deceiver, despite your spam, posting verses in isolation, deleting 3/4 of the bible, including, where it "plainly" says:



    Matthew 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    Psalms 111 KJV

    7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

    8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

    ....to "prove" his doctrine of demons."

    He corrupts, perverts both Ephesians 2:15 KJV, Colossians 2:14 KJV, to prop up his satanic assertion that the perfect, holy, just, good, not void law of God, which reflects His character, is no longer in existence.


    Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

    He satanically delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



    Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.


    He keeps satanically spamming this made up slop, that Col. 2:13-14 KJV has God's holy laws in view, being nailed to the cross. I, and others, have corrected you on it, over, and over, and yet you keep asserting this satanic "doctrine." One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:

    What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of requirements"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.




    The writ of charges...
    In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.

    No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:


    Romans 7 KJV

    12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

    14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

    16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

    “handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.


    The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.

    Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."

    26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.




    The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.

    The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!

    Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ , representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.

    " Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"


    The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.

    This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:

    19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.

    20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

    The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.


    When we talk about "nailing it to his cross", that is not the law itself, but the curse of the law, or the penalties for disobeying the Law. It was the penalty of the broken law which He rendered inoperative, not the law itself.

    In that time period when a man was charged with a crime the charges against him were written down on papyrus. If he was found not guilty the papyrus was then washed down with water, removing or blotting out those charges against him, to confirm his acquittal. This abolished the written charges against the man. This is the what is referred to in "blotting out of ordinances against us" that were nailed to the Stake, not the Law itself.

    The law is still God's standard of righteousness and all the requirements for the broken law remain unchanged, apart from Him.



    Again-the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty.


    The certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.



    Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!

    In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

    In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.

    By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!

    The Lord Jesus Christ nailed to the cross what was contrary to him...

    Ephesians 2:15 KJV "the law of commandments contained in ordinances;"
    Colossians 2:14 KJV "the handwriting of ordinances"
    Hebrews 7:16 KJV "the law of a carnal commandment"
    Hebrews 9:10 KJV "carnal ordinances;"

    What the Lord Jesus Christ abolished was carnal/fleshly commandments and ordinances, and hand written ordinances=that is the context..= the decrees of exclusion established by men, which were rooted in enmity between Jew & Gentile,such as “touch not, taste not, handle not”(survey Colossians 2:21 KJV), man-made social class/caste system set in place by Oral Torah, and Jewish leaders, attempting to keep a social and religious difference between Jews and Gentiles. Ordinances/decrees were laws that were man-made. Paul was referring to man-made orders, in this verse through the term “ordinance”. These “ordinances” were, yes, indeed hostile/”hate”/”enmity”, as they restrained anyone other than “Jews” worshiping God. These ordinances made a clear separation between Jew and Gentile, by elevating one above the other, to an “elite status,” to the extent where gentiles were looked down upon, scorned, and disassociated, by Jews everywhere………..


    And I already picked apart your 2 Corinthians 3:13 satanic interpretation, at length, and you had nothing to say, as your daddy devil told you to hush.

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...John-3-7/page9

    Post #127
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are concerned about things that God has already dealt with in Jesus Christ. If God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" then who needs the law? This is why it has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
    There it is-again-he asserts that the law must be abolished, so that there is no condemnation/judgment, that the Saviour might bear, in our place, and no sin debt possible, for which He might die.He denies Christ died for our sins, denies that He took our just judgment/condemnation, in our place, becoming a curse, for us, for breaking his existing law. Pate:Eliminate the law, so that there is no sin debt, judgment, condemnation!!!!!!

    ON RECORD-again.
    Saint John W

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    Thank you, Robert.

    There is much resistance on this Forum towards the Gospel and justification by faith.
    No offense intended, but I will resist your gospel also.

    WHAT ARE THE MECHANICS OF THE GOSPEL?

    In the Gospel, God in the person of Jesus Christ comes into the world as the new Adam and the new representative of the human race, his mission is to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves because we are sinners, Romans 3:10. This salvation is totally and completely outside of us, it took place over 2000 years ago before we were born.
    I needed salvation in this lifetime.
    Not 2,000 years ago, and not after I die.

    And the gospel of the kingdom in the Bible led me to His salvation.
    How that gospels works is, if you hear Jesus' words, and do all God's commandments,
    then Jesus manifests Himself to you. (John 14:21)
    And those that endure until the end, the same are saved. (Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13)

    Jesus is our substitute and our representative. Everything that Jesus is and everything that Jesus does is for our justification and our salvation. He saves us by acting in our name and on our behalf. Here is a list of his accomplishments.
    If you don't keep His saying, your substitute will be of no effect.
    We have to keep His words and do them as He said,
    and He said, if we won't believe Moses, we won't understand His words,
    because Moses wrote of Him. (John 5:46-47)

    He fulfills God's Holy Law, Matthew 5:18 and then abolishes it, Ephesians 2:15.
    Who will abolish God's holy law?
    Don't think that Jesus came to destroy the law.

    And I know that His commandment is life everlasting:
    whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

    John 12:50

    If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love;
    even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.

    John 15:10

    He atones for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.
    Whoso eats My flesh, and drinks My blood, hath eternal life;
    and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 6:54

    He ascends into heaven and is accepted by God the Father, Hebrews 1:3.
    And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,
    even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    John 3:13

    When God accepted Jesus back into heaven we were accepted in him.
    To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with Me in My throne,
    even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne.

    Revelation 3:21

    "And has raised us up together and has made us to sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 2:6. "For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:3.

    God now sees all that have embraced this Gospel as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. This is the Gospel and how we are saved, Ephesians 1:13.
    Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day,
    that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;

    Deuteronomy 11:8

    Bless Jesus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by comingfrom View Post
    Thank you, Robert.



    No offense intended, but I will resist your gospel also.



    I needed salvation in this lifetime.
    Not 2,000 years ago, and not after I die.

    And the gospel of the kingdom in the Bible led me to His salvation.
    How that gospels works is, if you hear Jesus' words, and do all God's commandments,
    then Jesus manifests Himself to you. (John 14:21)
    And those that endure until the end, the same are saved. (Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13)



    If you don't keep His saying, your substitute will be of no effect.
    We have to keep His words and do them as He said,
    and He said, if we won't believe Moses, we won't understand His words,
    because Moses wrote of Him. (John 5:46-47)



    Who will abolish God's holy law?
    Don't think that Jesus came to destroy the law.

    And I know that His commandment is life everlasting:
    whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.

    John 12:50

    If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love;
    even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.

    John 15:10



    Whoso eats My flesh, and drinks My blood, hath eternal life;
    and I will raise him up at the last day.

    John 6:54



    And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,
    even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    John 3:13



    To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with Me in My throne,
    even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne.

    Revelation 3:21



    Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day,
    that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;

    Deuteronomy 11:8

    Bless Jesus.

    No one can keep the commandments, not even the apostle Paul, Romans 3:10 also Romans 3:23.

    The Gospel allows for ungodly sinners to be saved, Romans 4:5.

    If you think that you can keep the commandments, then you are under the law and under the curse, Galatians 3:10.

    You are not trusting in Christ, you are trusting in yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    There it is-again-he asserts that the law must be abolished, so that there is no condemnation/judgment, that the Saviour might bear, in our place, and no sin debt possible, for which He might die.He denies Christ died for our sins, denies that He took our just judgment/condemnation, in our place, becoming a curse, for us, for breaking his existing law. Pate:Eliminate the law, so that there is no sin debt, judgment, condemnation!!!!!!

    ON RECORD-again.
    Again no scripture. I did not abolish the law, Jesus did, Colossians 2:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Again no scripture. I did not abolish the law, Jesus did, Colossians 2:10.
    Vile, satanic, habitual liar, spammer, troll, as you delete 3/4 of scriptures, add to it, change words, replacing them with your daddy the devil's words, which you admit, ON RECORD, that you do.. Answer these scriptures, demon,which you;ve been shown for year, 666 one, that picks your satanic assertion, that the LORD destroyed, MADE VOID, His law.

    1 Pate 6:66 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power, because He destroyed, made void the law, b so that there is no condemnation/judgment, that the Saviour might bear, in our place, and no sin debt possible, for which He might die, as Christ did not die for our sins, he did not take our just judgment/condemnation, in our place, becoming a curse, for us, for breaking his existing law. The LORD has eliminated the law, so that there is no sin debt, judgment, condemnation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    This is why it has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
    Paul plainly says that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 3:13.

    =word=for-word spam, that I/others, have refuted, with chapter, and verse, as the wicked deceiver changes words in the bible, replacing them with his Pate-ianity words, adds words to the bible, and butchers the meaning of words.


    Pate calls Paul a liar, a false apostle, a deceiver, as Pate asserts that this should not be in the bible...



    Romans 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


    ...or revises it to:

    Pate-ianity: Do we then make void the law through faith? yea, we do!!! The law is void.


    You wicked deceiver, and your spamming Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 3:13, in isolation, satanically "interpreting" them, is from the pits of hell.

    No, satanic shill, when we talk about "nailing it to his cross", that is not the law itself, but the curse of the law, or the penalties for disobeying the existing law. It was the penalty of the broken law which He rendered inoperative, not the law itself.

    In that time period, when a man was charged with a crime, the charges against him were written down on papyrus. If he was found not guilty, the papyrus was then washed down with water, removing or blotting out those charges against him, to confirm his acquittal. This abolished the written charges against the man. This is the what is referred to in "blotting out of ordinances against us" that were nailed to the cross, not the law itself.

    The holy law is still God's standard of righteousness and all the requirements for the broken law remain unchanged, apart from Him.The certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross, not the law.The penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay was nailed--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty.

    No, it does not "plainly say" that God's perfect law was abolished, deceiver, despite your spam, posting verses in isolation, deleting 3/4 of the bible, including, where it "plainly" says:



    Matthew 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    Psalms 111 KJV

    7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

    8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

    ....to "prove" his doctrine of demons."

    He corrupts, perverts both Ephesians 2:15 KJV, Colossians 2:14 KJV, to prop up his satanic assertion that the perfect, holy, just, good, not void law of God, which reflects His character, is no longer in existence.


    Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...

    He satanically delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



    Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.


    He keeps satanically spamming this made up slop, that Col. 2:13-14 KJV has God's holy laws in view, being nailed to the cross. I, and others, have corrected you on it, over, and over, and yet you keep asserting this satanic "doctrine." One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:

    What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of requirements"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.




    The writ of charges...
    In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.

    No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:


    Romans 7 KJV

    12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

    13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

    14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

    16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

    “handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.


    The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.

    Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."

    26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.




    The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.

    The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!

    Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ , representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.

    " Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"


    The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.

    This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:

    19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.

    20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

    The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.


    When we talk about "nailing it to his cross", that is not the law itself, but the curse of the law, or the penalties for disobeying the Law. It was the penalty of the broken law which He rendered inoperative, not the law itself.

    In that time period when a man was charged with a crime the charges against him were written down on papyrus. If he was found not guilty the papyrus was then washed down with water, removing or blotting out those charges against him, to confirm his acquittal. This abolished the written charges against the man. This is the what is referred to in "blotting out of ordinances against us" that were nailed to the Stake, not the Law itself.

    The law is still God's standard of righteousness and all the requirements for the broken law remain unchanged, apart from Him.



    Again-the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty.


    The certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.



    Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!

    In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

    In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.

    By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!

    The Lord Jesus Christ nailed to the cross what was contrary to him...

    Ephesians 2:15 KJV "the law of commandments contained in ordinances;"
    Colossians 2:14 KJV "the handwriting of ordinances"
    Hebrews 7:16 KJV "the law of a carnal commandment"
    Hebrews 9:10 KJV "carnal ordinances;"

    What the Lord Jesus Christ abolished was carnal/fleshly commandments and ordinances, and hand written ordinances=that is the context..= the decrees of exclusion established by men, which were rooted in enmity between Jew & Gentile,such as “touch not, taste not, handle not”(survey Colossians 2:21 KJV), man-made social class/caste system set in place by Oral Torah, and Jewish leaders, attempting to keep a social and religious difference between Jews and Gentiles. Ordinances/decrees were laws that were man-made. Paul was referring to man-made orders, in this verse through the term “ordinance”. These “ordinances” were, yes, indeed hostile/”hate”/”enmity”, as they restrained anyone other than “Jews” worshiping God. These ordinances made a clear separation between Jew and Gentile, by elevating one above the other, to an “elite status,” to the extent where gentiles were looked down upon, scorned, and disassociated, by Jews everywhere………..


    And I already picked apart your 2 Corinthians 3:13 satanic interpretation, at length, and you had nothing to say, as your daddy devil told you to hush.

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...John-3-7/page9

    Post #127
    Last edited by john w; January 10th, 2019 at 04:35 PM.
    Saint John W

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    Once again, Pate has no scripture, having deleted most of it, and refuses to answer, on gag orders from the devil:
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are concerned about things that God has already dealt with in Jesus Christ.
    Dealt with what, viper? Sins?

    As you've been asked, by me, others, over 100 times: Sin is the transgression of the law, as you've been shown, from the bible. You assert that the law was destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago. So, tell all of TOL, how you, anyone, can be charged with sins, having a sin debt, for sins in the future, by definition, if there is no law to be broken, that would mark the transgression, sin.


    Go ahead, Pate.


    Tell us how Christ can die for your/anyone's sins, paying the penalty for them, "justice served," by dying on your/our place, if no sin debt is "created."

    Go ahead.

    Answer, Pate: How can Christ die for your/our sins,IN THE FUTURE, if, according to you, the law that defines sin, transgression, was eliminated, destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago?

    Answer. Pate: How can sin still exist for unbelievers,now, if the law that defines sin, transgression, was eliminated, destroyed, made void, 2000+ years ago? No law, no transgression, demon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If God sees us as perfect and complete "In Christ" then who needs the law? This is why it has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.
    No, you argue Christ did not die for our sins, and that we are complete in Christ, because He destroyed his own law.

    Saved ones don't believe your satanic perversion of "the Gospel," satanic trash, from the pits of hell, as you assert that it is not that we are in Christ, perfect, because we believe Christ died for our sins, our sin debt, taking our judgment/condemnation, SO THAT JUSTICE IS SERVED, taking our place, but it is your satanic perversion, that He died to destroy, make void, His own law, so that there is no sin debt, for which He might die, and no need to take our place, as a curse, being judged, condemned in our place, as there is no law to condemn, to judge, and create a sin debt, charge against us.

    No, there is a forever existing, holy, good, spiritual law God, deceiver, that judges/condemns each one of us; the reason we are saved, deceiver, the reason we are in Christ, "perfect,"is because we trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, that Christ died for our sins, paying the sin debt, penalty, in our place, and suffering the judgment/condemnation/curse of HIS OWN EXISTING LAW, IN OUR PLACE=justice, the tenant of the doctrine of the substitutionary atonement. You deny that, satanically asserting that the solution is to make void, destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, for which He might die, and that no condemnation/judgment is possible, with no law to judge/condemn.



    Demon.




    Again-you reject that Christ died for our sins-the devil child never cites that, the gospel of Christ, in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-never. And why is that? He cannot, as sin is the transgression of the law, and if there is no law, to define sin, there is no sin/sin debt/transgression, for which Christ might die.

    This is what you believe, liar:

    Pate asserts that Christ did not die for his/anyone's sins, 2000+ years ago, as they were all in the future, by definition, as He did not die to pay for his/anyone's sin debt, penalty, IOU, which IS INCURRED BY BREAKING GOD'S OWN EXISTING LAW, by definition, as there is no law defining the transgression/offense/sin, and resulting penalty, for which He might die, and Christ did not take his/anyone's place, in judgment, condemnation, AS HIS/OUR SUBSTITUTE, taking that judgment/condemnation/wrath, in our place, as there is no law, to bring about judgment, condemnation, wrath. He denies that Christ died for our sins, and denies the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, asserting that God's "solution" is to destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt incurred, or judgment/condemnation possible. Thus, the LORD God could have destroyed His own law, from the third heaven, not needing to send His Christ to die. And devil child Pate cannot give us one scripture, as to how the Lord Jesus Christ's destroying of the law affects justice, as Pate perverts God's justice, as no scripture testifies to how destroying the law maintains, affirms the justice of God-he made it up. The scripture does testify as to why the Saviour need die, by blood, in our place.........propitiation, reconciliation, identification, substitution.....Justice served.


    Pate rejects all of that, in his wicked perverting the gospel of Christ, as a pawn, shill of the devil.
    Saint John W

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    Tell all of TOL, devil child Pate, why you delete these:


    Matthew 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    Psalms 111 KJV

    7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

    8 They stand fast for ever and ever
    , and are done in truth and uprightness.



    Romans 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.



    Silence, for over 2 years, from this satanist.
    Saint John W

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to john w For Your Post:

    Right Divider (January 10th, 2019)

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    Thank you Robert,

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    No one can keep the commandments, not even the apostle Paul, Romans 3:10 also Romans 3:23.
    So many have told me.
    But I listened to Jesus, and I considered that He isn't such an bad guy
    that He would tell us to do something that no one can do.

    Even if we can't do them all well yet, the Lord knows how hard we are trying.
    Doesn't He?

    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
    and shall teach men so,
    he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
    but whosoever shall do and teach them,
    the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 5:19

    The Gospel allows for ungodly sinners to be saved, Romans 4:5.
    That's what the ungodly say.
    Rather, hear what Jesus says.

    And shall come forth;
    they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
    and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
    I can of Mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge:
    and My judgment is just;
    because I seek not Mine own will, but the will of the Father which has sent Me.

    John 5:29-30

    Best seek God's righteousness as Jesus said. (Mtt 6:33)

    If you think that you can keep the commandments, then you are under the law and under the curse, Galatians 3:10.
    But this people who know not the law are cursed.
    John 7:49

    One only has to look in the law, to see what the curse of the law is.
    But I guess, once you have forsaken the law, then you can't look at it, for fear of the curse.

    Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
    A blessing,
    if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
    And a curse,
    if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God,
    but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day,
    to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

    Deuteronomy 11:26-28


    You are not trusting in Christ, you are trusting in yourself.
    We can't do the commandments without Jesus.
    If you had said, on can not keep the commandments without Jesus help, I would have agreed.

    But because Jesus comes, and helps,
    it is possible for us to fulfil the whole of the law.
    But not if you listen to the naysayers.

    And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake:
    but he that endures to the end shall be saved.

    Matthew 10:22

    And he that overcomes, and keeps My works unto the end,
    to him will I give power over the nations:

    Revelation 2:26

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    Quote Originally Posted by comingfrom View Post
    Thank you Robert,



    So many have told me.
    But I listened to Jesus, and I considered that He isn't such an bad guy
    that He would tell us to do something that no one can do.

    Even if we can't do them all well yet, the Lord knows how hard we are trying.
    Doesn't He?

    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
    and shall teach men so,
    he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
    but whosoever shall do and teach them,
    the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 5:19



    That's what the ungodly say.
    Rather, hear what Jesus says.

    And shall come forth;
    they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
    and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
    I can of Mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge:
    and My judgment is just;
    because I seek not Mine own will, but the will of the Father which has sent Me.

    John 5:29-30

    Best seek God's righteousness as Jesus said. (Mtt 6:33)



    But this people who know not the law are cursed.
    John 7:49

    One only has to look in the law, to see what the curse of the law is.
    But I guess, once you have forsaken the law, then you can't look at it, for fear of the curse.

    Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
    A blessing,
    if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
    And a curse,
    if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God,
    but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day,
    to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

    Deuteronomy 11:26-28




    We can't do the commandments without Jesus.
    If you had said, on can not keep the commandments without Jesus help, I would have agreed.

    But because Jesus comes, and helps,
    it is possible for us to fulfil the whole of the law.
    But not if you listen to the naysayers.

    And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake:
    but he that endures to the end shall be saved.

    Matthew 10:22

    And he that overcomes, and keeps My works unto the end,
    to him will I give power over the nations:

    Revelation 2:26

    Jesus came into the world to reveal God the Father. Jesus was also a teacher of the law. The Sermon on the Mount is a human impossibility. If you think that you can keep the commandments you are deceiving yourself, 1 John 1:8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus came into the world to reveal God the Father. Jesus was also a teacher of the law. The Sermon on the Mount is a human impossibility. If you think that you can keep the commandments you are deceiving yourself, 1 John 1:8.
    I guess that you didn't know that the law included what to do when you broke the law.

    You must know that, because you know more than we'll ever know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I guess that you didn't know that the law included what to do when you broke the law.

    You must know that, because you know more than we'll ever know.

    Which isn't very much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Which isn't very much.
    Clarify... what in the world are you talking about?
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Jesus came into the world to reveal God the Father. Jesus was also a teacher of the law. The Sermon on the Mount is a human impossibility. If you think that you can keep the commandments you are deceiving yourself, 1 John 1:8.
    Maybe I am, but I think
    If you think you can walk into heaven with your back turned against God's words,
    you are deceiving yourself.

    For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you,
    as it is written.
    For circumcision verily profits, if thou keep the law:
    but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
    Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law,
    shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
    And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee,
    who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

    Romans 2:14-27

    What St Paul is saying there is, even someone who isn't born again can fulfil the law,
    and if they do, they shall be rewarded the same as them who were born again and fulfilled the law.

    But if a born again forsakes the law, he will be made unborn again.

    That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it,
    as it spued out the nations that were before you.
    ...
    Ye shall therefore keep all My statutes, and all My judgments, and do them:
    that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out.

    Leviticus 18:28 & 20:22

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