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Thread: Meaning of "Death" at John11:25-26

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Meaning of "Death" at John11:25-26

    In the following passage the Lord Jesus refers to a "death" two times:

    "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die'"
    (Jn.11:25-26).

    What meanings do you place in the two places where the Lord refers to a "death"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    In the following passage the Lord Jesus refers to a "death" two times:

    "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die'"
    (Jn.11:25-26).

    What meanings do you place in the two places where the Lord refers to a "death"?
    They're both the same, but it's your post, so they just might not be.



    Rom. 5:6-11.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    They're both the same, but it's your post, so they just might not be.
    Is not the first mention of a "death" referring to the death of the physical body? How can the second reference to a "death" be speaking of the same death of a physical body?:

    "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die'" (Jn.11:25-26).

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    Over 750 post club iamaberean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    In the following passage the Lord Jesus refers to a "death" two times:

    "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die'"
    (Jn.11:25-26).

    What meanings do you place in the two places where the Lord refers to a "death"?
    Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
    Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
    Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    Jesus was saying that Martha's brother died under the law but because he and many others that believed in Jesus, would live again at the resurrection. For Martha he said if one is alive and believes on him, then they shall never die.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    For Martha he said if one is alive and believes on him, then they shall never die.
    Believers who are alive physically still die physically so the Lord was not speaking of a physical death there. What kind of death was the Lord making reference?

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    The "I am's" leading up to John 11:25-26 KJV:

    The Christ/Messiah: "I that speak unto thee am he." John 4;26 KJV
    Bread:"I am the bread of life/I am the living bread: John 6:35-51
    Light: "...I am the light of the world,," John 8:12 KJV
    Deity:"...Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58 KJV
    Door:"I am the door.." John 10:7-9 KJV
    Shepherd:" "I am the good shepherd.." John 10:11-14 KJV


    Life:".. I am the resurrection, and the life..." John 11:25 KJV

    Resurrection is, yes, associated with "life from the dead," so why "and the life," in John 11:25 KJV? Is the LORD God, being redundant? No....The bible....a book of details. Words matter. Survey john 5:29 KJV, in the context of John 5:19-29 KJV:

    29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Per John 5:19-29 KJV, there is not only a physical and future resurrection, John 5:28 KJV, but also a spiritual and present resurrection...

    John KJV
    25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

    =the future phyical resurrection of John 5:28 KJV, but the Lord Jesus Christ adds...

    "and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?-John 11:26

    "yet shall he live," verse 25, coresponds to:

    1 Thessalonians 4 KJV

    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    "shall never die," verse 26, corresponds to:

    1 Thessalonians 4 KJV

    17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    ="trans" dispensational doctrine


    The Lord Jesus Christ is not only the resurrection, He is the life. Resurrection is the end of death, and has NADA to do with the redeemed, those bought at a price;it, death, has done all it can do, as it is "toast," "finito." The bought ones now live in the life that ends death, as for us, the old life and its death, coindemnation, judgment no longer exist.

    John 11:25-26 KJV-spiritual, and present quickening, is not in view, but that there will be some, the living, at "the second time"(Acts 7:13 KJV, Hebrews 9;28 KJV), who shall not "sleep," but be "alive and remain," so as pass to glory without physical death, "changed in a moment/twinkling of an eye"-1 Cor. 15:52 KJV.


    Of course, I suspect Jer will disagree, and correct me/others,as he really is not interested in solicting other members of the boc's "take," on this scripture, or others; but just to pound the podium, and show us that he is right, and why, and why we are all wrong.

    Right, Jer? There can be no doubt, whatsoever.

    Correct away, Jer-you have the microphone, stage.....
    Last edited by john w; January 14th, 2019 at 11:24 AM.
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    No....The bible....a book of details. Words matter.

    "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die'"
    (Jn.11:25-26).

    These words of the Lord Jesus were addressed to a Jewess who lived under the law. And the only "requirement" the Lord mentioned for receiving this blessing is "believing."

    But according to you the Jews had to not only believe but also do works to receive these blessings.

    So even though you say that "words matter" these words of the Lord Jesus do not matter to you because you are going to cling to your false ideas no matter what the Lord Jesus said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    "
    But according to you ...
    =which he spams to everyone on TOL, as he is not really interested in soliciting, hearing, other TOL members' "take on "What kind of death was the Lord making reference?"

    As I stated:

    Of course, I suspect Jer will disagree, and correct me/others,as he really is not interested in soliciting other members of the boc's "take," on this scripture, or others; but just to pound the podium, and show us that he is right, and why, and why we are all wrong.

    Which explains why most of his threads are...



    Carry on, Jer., and hit me with another,"As we see, you have no answer....You ignore....Why don't you believe the bible/the Lord.....?" blah blah blah deceptive debating gimmick.

    You're beginning to bore me.

    But, then again, Jer. is always right.


    EOT. CLOSED. SHUT DOWN. RIP.
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    You're beginning to bore me.
    What is boring is the predictibilty that you will always ignore what is really said in the verses under discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    What is boring is the predictibilty that you will always ignore what is really said in the verses under discussion.
    Another one of Jer's stock stumpers, that he spams to everyone: You ignore....

    Bye, Jer....
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    What meanings do you place in the two places where the Lord refers to a "death"?
    =he did not really want anyone's view...just here to correct others, show that he is always right.

    Have fun, Jer., "talking" to yourself. Any wagers, on how few members participate going forward?
    Saint John W

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    Bye, Jer.....
    Once again you run and hide from the truth that the blessing which the Lord Jesus speaks of in the following verse are a result of "believing" and only believing:

    "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die'" (Jn.11:25-26).

    It puzzles me why you think that the Lord was wrong when He said what He said there because you say that none of the Jews could receive that blessing apart from works. Do you think that He was just having a bad day and just forgot to mention "works"?

    Run, john, run!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Once again you run and hide from the truth that the blessing which the Lord Jesus speaks............ why you think that the Lord was wrong when He said........................................
    =spammed to every TOL member
    Saint John W

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    John 8:51 King James Version

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.


    I believe that we who are alive, born again and die shall never see The Spirit of Death because we are already in Christ and we will pass through: "The Valley of the Shadow of Death," because our body will die but our spirit, already alive in Christ, will not be subject to the spirit whom Jesus defeated upon the cross (Death, himself) and handed the victory over him to us. I once heard it described as this: just as the shadow of a dog has never bitten anyone as we pass from this life into God's Presence we will not be harmed by the shadow of Death.
    "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7

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    Over 750 post club iamaberean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Believers who are alive physically still die physically so the Lord was not speaking of a physical death there. What kind of death was the Lord making reference?
    Spiritual. If one does not believe, they are spiritually dead anyway.


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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamaberean View Post
    Spiritual. If one does not believe, they are spiritually dead anyway.

    Right you are and it is the one described here and it will have no end:

    "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death"
    (Rev.21:8).

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