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Thread: Dispensationaism Proven.

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    Body part Right Divider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    They were preaching that the Messiah came without knowing the full Gospel, same as John the Baptist. Are you implying that the 12 did not preach the death burial and resurrection after it occurred?
    Most certainly NOT as "good news" per Paul.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    They were preaching that the Messiah came without knowing the full Gospel, same as John the Baptist. Are you implying that the 12 did not preach the death burial and resurrection after it occurred?
    No such thing as "the full Gospel." The 12, including Judas, for almost 3 years, were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, the same good news that the Master preached, and it's foundation excluded the death, burial, resurrection, the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV. The 12 had no idea, at least prior to the dbr occurring, that Christ would die, and rise again-it was hid from them. The "gospel of the kingdom" is not equivalent to the gospel of Christ.
    Saint John W

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    Journeyman binyamin7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Here we go again with the completely confused Acts 2 dispensational "position".

    Why Paul at all then? There were already TWELVE apostles according your theory.
    12 Apostles or 12 Original Apostles? There are many more than 12 Apostles. Do you understand what a Biblical Apostle is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    No such thing as "the full Gospel." The 12, including Judas, for almost 3 years, were preaching the gospel of the kingdom, the same good news that the Master preached, and it's foundation excluded the death, burial, resurrection, the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV. The 12 had no idea, at least prior to the dbr occurring, that Christ would die, and rise again-it was hid from them. The "gospel of the kingdom" is not equivalent to the gospel of Christ.
    Do you believe that the 12 did not preach the Death, Burial, and Resurrection after it occurred?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Most certainly NOT as "good news" per Paul.
    So you believe that Peter and John did not preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Yeshua HaMashiach?

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    So you believe that Peter and John did not preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Yeshua HaMashiach?
    I've given chapter, verse, for years, that at least prior to the dbr, they did not/could not.



    1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "gospel"

    Death
    Burial
    Resurrection

    Survey the book...

    1.The 12 did not know of the impending dbr-it was hid from them, until later in the Lord's ministry-and yet, prior to them knowing, they were preaching "the gospel of the kingdom:"


    "For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31-32 KJV

    "Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34 KJV

    "For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9 KJV


    2. Peter tried to prevent the Lord Jesus Christ's death, and His death was a key component of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, by which we are reconciled:

    "From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee" Mt. 16:21-22 KJV

    "And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him." Mark 8:31-32 KJV

    Peter’s response was to rebuke the Lord Jesus Christ. Today, in this dispensation, when someone rebukes the gospel of Christ, what do we call that someone? Lost.Peter certainly wasn’t “looking forward" to the dbr.


    3. Even after the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection, the 12 initially did not believe it:

    "And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted." Mt. 28:17 KJV

    "And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen." Mark 16:11 KJV

    "And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest. It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not." Luke 24:9-11 KJV

    What do we call someone who “believes not” the resurrection? You got it-lost! If Peter and the 10 were “looking forward to" the dbr, they certainly would not have denied the resurrection after it happened.


    " And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?" Luke 24:41 KJV

    Therefore, they were not preaching the dbr, "the gospel" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, as a basis of justification, at least prior to its occurrence, but they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. They certainly were not "looking forward" to it, and this "didn't fully understand it" jazz is made up-they knew NADA about it, as it was hid from them. They initially denied the resurrection.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    So you believe that Peter and John did not preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Yeshua HaMashiach?
    Oh goody... another one that doesn't even read the posts that he responds to. You'll find my ignore list soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    12 Apostles or 12 Original Apostles? There are many more than 12 Apostles. Do you understand what a Biblical Apostle is?
    Indeed I do. The Lord Jesus Christ chose 12 apostles for the 12 tribes of Israel and those 12 apostles were still addressing the 12 tribes of Israel throughout Acts 1-8

    The Lord Jesus Christ was Himself an apostle per Hebrews 3:1
    Quote Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
    That explains why your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    You preach against me for preaching obedience to Christ for salvation.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    They were preaching that the Messiah came without knowing the full Gospel, same as John the Baptist. Are you implying that the 12 did not preach the death burial and resurrection after it occurred?
    There is nothing said at Luke 9:6 that even hints the the "gospel" being preached there was not a full gospel. And as I have already demonstrated, at the time the Twelve were preaching that gospel they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die so they sure were not preaching that Christ died for our sins, the truth that is the heart and soul of the gospel of grace.

    On the day of Pentecost Peter did preach the Lord Jesus' death, burial and resurrection but they preached that in order to prove the following:

    "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ"
    (Acts 2:36).

    The Jews who heard that gospel message were born of God and were saved the moment when they believed it:

    "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 Jn.5:1).

    "Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:30-31).

    It wasn't until Paul that the following gospel truth was revealed:

    "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus"
    (Ro.3:21-24).

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    Quote Originally Posted by john w View Post
    I've given chapter, verse, for years, that at least prior to the dbr, they did not/could not.
    And I have likely debated you before with a previous screen name. Listen the 12 knew and believed about the death burial and Resurrection before Saul did. It was an extension of their ministry of the Gospel that the Holy Spirit used to get Saul saved- in Stephens message and possibly others he heard first hand. If you want to create a false distinction in order to prove that you are twisting Paul's Scriptures to your own demise- 2 Peter 3:15-16- you can. I would write Scripture proving Peter and John preached the full Gospel before and after Paul did, but if you can't find it and you think Bobby Enyart speaks ex cathedra, you are not much different than someone praying to Mary or following the Watchtower.


    Here is my question, can you show me 2 places you doctrinally disagree with Bob Enyart to prove you are capable of independent thought and not a drone/ machine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    Indeed I do. The Lord Jesus Christ chose 12 apostles for the 12 tribes of Israel and those 12 apostles were still addressing the 12 tribes of Israel throughout Acts 1-8

    The Lord Jesus Christ was Himself an apostle per Hebrews 3:1
    That is what I thought you would say. What is the label given to Saul and Barnabus in Acts 13:1?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    There is nothing said at Luke 9:6 that even hints the the "gospel" being preached there was not a full gospel. And as I have already demonstrated, at the time the Twelve were preaching that gospel they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die so they sure were not preaching that Christ died for our sins, the truth that is the heart and soul of the gospel of grace.
    Please stop mentioning that before the Full Gospel they didn't preach the full Gospel as if that is a point that means something.

    On the day of Pentecost Peter did preach the Lord Jesus' death, burial and resurrection but they preached that in order to prove the following:

    "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ"
    (Acts 2:36).

    The Jews who heard that gospel message were born of God and were saved the moment when they believed it:

    "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 Jn.5:1).

    Yes he did in fact preach the full Gospel you are correct. Why do you suppose Peter said:
    "And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

    If that is not clear enough, in 2 Peter 3:15-16 we see that Peter and Paul both wrote to the same group interchangeably. Because they both preached the Gospel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    And I have likely debated you before with a previous screen name. Listen the 12 knew and believed about the death burial and Resurrection before Saul did. It was an extension of their ministry of the Gospel that the Holy Spirit used to get Saul saved- in Stephens message and possibly others he heard first hand. If you want to create a false distinction in order to prove that you are twisting Paul's Scriptures to your own demise- 2 Peter 3:15-16- you can. I would write Scripture proving Peter and John preached the full Gospel before and after Paul did, but if you can't find it and you think Bobby Enyart speaks ex cathedra, you are not much different than someone praying to Mary or following the Watchtower.


    Here is my question, can you show me 2 places you doctrinally disagree with Bob Enyart to prove you are capable of independent thought and not a drone/ machine?
    I've given chapter, verse, for years, that at least prior to the dbr, they did not/could not.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    .. to prove you are capable of independent thought and not a drone/ machine?
    Quite impressive cliche. Please teach us. Please?

    You need to prove to me that you are worthy of me allowing you to engage you.

    So there.

    You're not in my league. Sit.
    Saint John W

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    Because they both preached the Gospel.
    The word "gospel" means "good news" or "glad tidings."

    The "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, is not the same "good news" that Christ died for our sins. Both are "good news" but not the same "good news."

    You still have not provided any evidence that the "gospel" which the Twelve preached at Luke 9:6 is the same gospel that declares that "Christ died for our sins" (1 Cor.15:3).

    Tell us how it was possible that the gospel which the Twelve preached at Luke 9:6 declared that Christ died for our sins because at the time of Luke 9:6 the Twelve didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die.

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