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Thread: Mystery Babylon: Catholicism or Islam?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    It is impossible that Jerusalem could be the harlot spoken of in the book of Revelation because in the future the people of the earth will go to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Jesus Christ who is the LORD Almighty
    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    It is impossible for Mystery Babylon to be Jerusalem.
    Jerusalem is the city of promise in the land of promise.
    Babylon is the city of exile outside of the land of promise.

    There are two Jerusalems: 1) the Jerusalem which now is (Gal 4:25); and 2) the Jerusalem of millennial prophecy.

    The "Jerusalem which now is" is "the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her" (Matt 23:37), and "the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified" (Rev 11:8). It is this Jerusalem which is "drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" (Rev 17:6). Compare Revelation 17:18 with Rev 11:8 and you will see that "the great city" being referred to is Jerusalem.

    The Jerusalem of millennial prophecy is New Jerusalem, which will come down from God out of heaven (Rev 21:10).
    Last edited by User Name; January 12th, 2019 at 01:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I think that you are right that there will be an alliance with Rome but I think that alliance will include all nations and not just the Arabic countries.
    So here is my problem with Rome being it. As we go into chapter 18, read Rev 18:11-17:

    11 “And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore: 12 merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; 13 and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men. 14 The fruit that your soul longed for has gone from you, and all the things which are rich and splendid have [a]gone from you, and you shall find them no more at all. 15 The merchants of these things, who became rich by her, will stand at a distance for fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16 and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls! 17 For in one hour such great riches [b]came to nothing.’ Every shipmaster, all who travel by ship, sailors, and as many as trade on the sea, stood at a distance
    Does this really look like a description of Rome? Does this fit NYC or Mecca better?

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    New York City is where the United Nations is waging war upon Jews and Christians.
    The United Nations’ Shameful Treatment of Persecuted Christians
    The United Nation's anti-Israel bias is undeniable -- Let's stop pretending otherwise
    The UN Declares War on Judeo-Christian Civilization

    As far as the United States itself goes, in 1993 the Federal government undertook an exercise to determine how difficult it would be to wage war against Christians, which resulted in nearly 80 deaths in Waco Texas.
    That looks like a stretch for me. Rome and Mecca seem to fit that description much better (Rev 17:16). However chapter 18:11-17 seems to fit NYC best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    There are two Jerusalems: 1) the Jerusalem which now is (Gal 4:25); and 2) the Jerusalem of as yet unfulfilled prophecy.

    The "Jerusalem which now is" is "the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her (Matt 23:37)," and "the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified (Rev 11:8)." It is this Jerusalem which is "drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus (Rev 17:6)." Compare Revelation 17:18 with Rev 11:8 and you will see that "the great city" being referred to is Jerusalem.

    The Jerusalem of unfulfilled prophecy is New Jerusalem, which will come down from God out of heaven (Rev 21:10).
    I'm sorry but Jerusalem does not "reign over the kings of the earth" vs18, or fit these passages: 18:3, 18:9, 18:11-17, 18:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    I'm sorry but Jerusalem does not "reign over the kings of the earth" vs18, or fit these passages: 18:3, 18:9, 18:11-17, 18:23.
    It will during the end times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    A king is not an empire. Get yourself a dictionary!

    DICTIONARY OF BIBLE THEMES – 1670 SYMBOLS
    Beasts: symbols of earthly kingdoms Daniel 7:2-7,17; Daniel 8:20-22

    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    Here is something to add. In Rev 18:23 it tells us that the whole world is high on Mystery Babylon's drugs- the word for sorcery here is pharmekia where we get the words pharmacy/ pharmaceuticals from. So this is interesting because Mecca and more broadly Islam is a huge exporter of poppy seeds/ heroin. However NYC and more broadly America is the #1 researcher of new pharmaceuticals on the planet and has been one of the biggest creators of drugs for many decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    I am reevaluating this subject to see if I can find anything I missed previously. Rev 17-18. What are your best arguements and most to-the-point proofs one way or the other?

    EDIT: Include NYC if you thing you can prove that case. So here are the best theories available:

    1. Rome/ Catholicism
    2. Mecca/ Islam
    3. NYC/ America

    It will likely become even more clear as things unfold, but examining the Text is part of obeying the command to "watch" given to us 9 times in the New Testament when talking about the end times/ eschatology.
    Its not a City, a Nation, the RCC or Islam, as a matter of fact calling it Mystery Babylon is wrong from jump street. Its the Harlot that is being described and put on display for Judgment by God in Rev. 17, then John gives us FOUR DESCRIPTIONS of who she is !! Shes a Mystery BUT, we are about to be told what the Mystery is, see verse 7 where he EXPLAINS the Mystery !! Anyway, she is a Mystery, {referring to the Mystery Religions spread all around the ancient world where they always had a Sun god, Moon goddess and a Son of God that was REBORN. It's always a TRI HEAD !! But Mystery was just one description, then we had Babylon {Where this false Religion got started via Nimrod, who married his mother Semiramis and their son was Tammuz. Then of course we get two more descriptors of who the Harlot is, she is the Mother of Harlots {Mother of ALL False Religion}and shes an Abomination unto all the earth {Serving any god but God is an Abomination.

    The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION, the Four Descriptors just describe ALL FALSE RELIGION. That is why the water represents all Peoples, Tongues, Nations etc. She is killed off by the Kings in League with the Beast is Rev. 17:16, and that is because there is no room for any other gods in the Anti-Christs reign of terror !! He must be worshiped as the ONLY GOD, thus the Harlot is destroyed and a BEAST over Religion {False Prophet} is brought in, he will be a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason who bribed Antiochus to become High Priest, having his Pious brother Onias III, a High Priest, killed, then he tried to Hellenize the Jews but that brought forth the Maccabean Revolt. Thus Antiochus and Jason are the FORERUNNERS unto the real duo !!

    John was REMINDED in verse 18 about WHAT HE SAW in the Vision, Babylon represents that city because the Harlot thrived in Babylon. But in the book of Revelation Babylon stands for the WHOLE WORLD, and we can see that in Rev. 16:19, where God calls the Nations He defeats BABYLON THE GREAT.

    Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts Earthquake/Jesus Returns}, and the cities of the nations fell: {Babylon FALLS} and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

    So God sees the NATIONS He defeats as Babylon, so who were they ? Lets look at the 6th Vial.

    Rev. 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

    14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

    Sothe Nations God DEFEATS are the E.U. and Beast, the Kings of the East and the Kings of the WHOLE WORLD !! So who is Babylon ? THE WHOLE WORLD !!

    Now think of it like this, we have a TWO SIDED COIN, False Religion {Hatlot} and False Governance {Beast Governments}.......The Harlot RIDES the Beast !! GET IT ?

    Rev. 17 is about the Harlot getting Judged, the Kings in league with the Beast kills her off, he demand t be the ONLY GOD WORSHIPED, which means he will kill of Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, chase Israel into the Wilderness and kill off the Remnant Church who missed the Rapture {Rev. 12:17}.

    Rev. 18 is the Governments of the WHOLE WORLD {Babylon} getting judged.What better way to DESTROY Babylons COMMERCE than to hit her with the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Plagues ? The Seals are the Anti-Christ, he kills about 2 billion people via wars, famine via wars, murder etc. we see them under the Altar in Seal number 5, the Sixth Seal announces Gods Wrath supernaturally, but it starts with the First Seal.

    Then the Trumpets burn all the grass and 1/3 of the trees, 1/3 of the sea is turned to blood and 1/3 of the sea creatures {shrimp/fish} die, 1/3 of the ships are destroyed, 1/3 of the fresh drinking waters are poisoned, then we have the Last Three Trumpets which are the Last Three Woes,A Demon Horde in Woe #1, a 200 Million angelic Army that slays 1.5 Billion people and the Last Woe is ALL 7 Vials !!

    So of course the WHOLE WORLDS COMMERCE is destroyed in Rev. 18. And the World is become a Habitation of devils, Satan is cast to earth and Apollyon is released from the bottomless pit. And when God says come out of her my people, lest you partake in her sins and plagues, that is God calling Israel to Flee Judea unto Petra.

    God Destroys Babylon in ONE HOUR.....Just like the Kings rule with the Beast for ONE HOUR {42 Months}. And in ONE DAY she is Destroyed the DAY OF THE LORD which last for at least 42 months of Wrath.

    The Harlot = All False Religion.

    Babylon = The Whole World or Satan's Dark Kingdom on earth.

    The Harlot RIDES the Beast !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Matthew 23:37, Galatians 4:25, Revelation 11:8, etc., show that the harlot is Jerusalem.
    Nailed it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    It will during the end times.
    Right. Jerusalem of the future will be worst than she was in the past. The little horn of Daniel 7 represents a Jewish king who will make a covenant with the Assyrian (of Isaiah) or Gog (of Ezekiel) or the beast that rises from the sea (of Revelation).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rondonmonson View Post

    The Harlot = All False Religion.

    Babylon = The Whole World or Satan's Dark Kingdom on earth.

    The Harlot RIDES the Beast !!
    Appreciate your comments. But it doesn't fit that the "mother of all harlots" is all harlots. She is a distinct and greater harlot than the rest. By the explanation of the Text and the comparative nature of the description in Rev 18, we can be sure it excludes an explanation that is inclusive of all false religions.
    "Prove all things. Hold fast that which is true."

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    ....1. Rome/ Catholicism......
    I should be offended by that, but it is so dumb and ignorant that I can't work up the energy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    Appreciate your comments. But it doesn't fit that the "mother of all harlots" is all harlots. She is a distinct and greater harlot than the rest. By the explanation of the Text and the comparative nature of the description in Rev 18, we can be sure it excludes an explanation that is inclusive of all false religions.
    Rev 18 is the Gov. side, think like this, who/how does Satan rule over this world ? Through Governments and Religion. The Beast are ruled via Satan hence Rev. 12 has 7 CROWNS on the Heads, Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ hence the CROWNS are on the Horns {Kings} and in Rev. 17, the Scarlet Colored Beast is Apollyon, he has NO CROWNS, he was the prince of Persia in Dan. 10, he was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region, so he was of the 7, but is an 8th because he is the King of the bottomless pit, God placed him there after Rome, when the Church Age formed, thus HE WAS......IS NOT.......YET IS...He will be released from the pit at the 1st Woe.

    The Harlot is All False Religions, the Mother of Harlots means she birthed false religions, Semiramis did that, she birthed multiple false Religions. She did it in Babylon, it was/is an Abomination and it was a Worldwide Mystery Religion because Nimrod was killed by Shem who sent his body all around the villiages to prove God was the real God, thus they went underground. It was a Mystery Religion, hence all the Secret Societies of today.

    Satan uses Governments, whom he tells Jesus in Luke 4 he rules over all of them, and he uses Religion, False Religion. The Harlot that is judged is judged by the Kings in league with the Anti-Christ...BUT WHY ? He desires to be the only God. These are just facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by binyamin7 View Post
    I am reevaluating this subject to see if I can find anything I missed previously. Rev 17-18. What are your best arguements and most to-the-point proofs one way or the other?
    Babylon the Great is the overwhelmingly powerful, presumptuous, propagandistic, hegemonic regime that already exists as the union between the apostate church (Churchianity combined with Zionism) and the deep state (which already overwhelmingly controls the world).

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    Do you not know that whoever is united to a prostitute becomes one body with her?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    "Mystery Babylon" will be the world religion during the time preceding the Lord Jesus' return to the earth to reign from the throne of David on the earth. And the church at Rome will be at the forefront of this world religion:

    "One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, 'Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters....The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits" (Rev.17:1,9).

    In his commentary on verse 9 Walter J. Veith writes that "There is more than one interpretation for this text. Literally speaking, Rome is known as the city of seven hills. The Vatican sits on one side of the Tiber River, facing the seven hills. In ancient times, hills were sacred high places, used to worship and offer sacrifices to deities. The systems of worship were based on salvation by works, and also included a counterfeit saviour or Messiah and mediators of both sexes. The gods that were worshipped in these places were manifestations of the sun god who was androgenic in that he/she could manifest himself/herself in the male or the female form...One further reason why the end-time religious confederacy, under the leadership of the Papacy, is called 'Babylon' is that the Babylonian system of worship has been passed down through history. Its rituals and doctrines are present in Catholicism, as well as religions such as Buddhism, Hinduism, earth religions, and even Islam."
    Will be? Do you not know that whoever is united to a prostitute becomes one body with her? (1 Corinthians 6:16).


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