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Thread: Dispensationalism and Its Focus Upon Dividing That What The New Testament Unifies

  1. #16
    Over 5000 post club 1Mind1Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northwye View Post
    "These facts serve to prove that when the LORD's program for Israel is in view then that program cannot be about the Body of Christ because His two different programs are mutually exclusive. In other words, when the Divine plan toward Israel is in effect then the children of Israel are above all people on the face of the earth so therefore it is impossible that at the same time the Divine plan is also toward the Body of Christ where there is no difference between the Jews and the Gentiles."

    The implication from the argument above is that some time in the future God is going to change the dispensation back to one in which Old Covenant Israel is again the chosen people, apparently because of their physical bloodline. And within the dispensationalist theology, the above is a substantive argument though Romans 11: 25-26 is not stated to support the argument.

    Yet if this is a substantive argument within New Testament scripture, then there would be more than Romans 11: 25-26 to support it. Because Romans 11: 26 does not clearly indicate from "και ουτως πας ισραηλ σωθησεται - And in this way all Israel shall be saved" can only mean ethnic or physical Israel of the Old Covenant. The Calvinist or Reformation interpretation of Romans 11: 26 is that Israel here refers to all the elect of God under the New Covenant, and not to physical Israel alone, because Paul's argument all along in Romans supports this view. Therefore, the argument that God is going to return Old Covenant Israel some some day to the status of the Chosen people because of their physical blood line is an argument within dispensationalism and not within New Testament scripture.
    After I think 5 years a bein' here, I've never been able to get one of these guys or gals to confirm DNA has anything to do with it.

  2. #17
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    That was the Old Covenant, but God promised He would establish a New Covenant to change His relationship with the sons of Israel. Christians are part of this New Covenant relationship with God.
    Prove it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    .. In other words, when the Divine plan toward Israel is in effect then the children of Israel are above all people on the face of the earth so therefore it is impossible that at the same time the Divine plan is also toward the Body of Christ where there is no difference between the Jews and the Gentiles.
    I agreed with most, if not all, of your post up to this point. And, it's possible I am merely misunderstanding your point.
    My understanding of Scripture would be that Israel will be above all MORTAL nations ..... they will NOT be above the immortal righteous, who will be reigning UPON the earth, some over the 12 tribes of Israel, some over other nations, some over several cities .... ALL of them being Kings/Priests.
    Included in the immortal righteous will be the true Church, made up of Jews and Gentiles.
    Please let me know if I misunderstood you.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
    After I think 5 years a bein' here, I've never been able to get one of these guys or gals to confirm DNA has anything to do with it.
    Let us look at the following verses which speaks of the New Covenant:

    "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).

    The LORD says that He will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. The "fathers" of those who will partake of this covenant were the children of Israel whom the Lord redeemed out of Egypt and the same people who broke His covenant (Jer.11:1-8). Since the "fathers" of these future members of the houses of Israel and Judah were the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob then that can only mean that in the future the members of both houses will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So in the future there will be a generation made up of the physical descendants of Jacob (Israel) who will all know the LORD and all of them will have their sins forgiven and be saved.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman View Post
    I agreed with most, if not all, of your post up to this point. And, it's possible I am merely misunderstanding your point.
    My understanding of Scripture would be that Israel will be above all MORTAL nations ..... they will NOT be above the immortal righteous, who will be reigning UPON the earth, some over the 12 tribes of Israel, some over other nations, some over several cities .... ALL of them being Kings/Priests.
    Included in the immortal righteous will be the true Church, made up of Jews and Gentiles.
    Please let me know if I misunderstood you.
    No, I think you are right. It is about the children of Israel being above all "mortal" people on the face of the earth during the time when the Lord Jesus will reign from the throne of David on the earth.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Jerry Shugart For Your Post:

    Dartman (January 8th, 2019)

  7. #21
    TOL Legend genuineoriginal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Prove it.
    Jeremiah 31;Romans 11
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
    Jeremiah 31;Romans 11
    Neither of those passages prove your point.

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